Chinahand Posted February 25, 2014 Share Posted February 25, 2014 Well, we are witnessing Great Power politics at a grand scale at the moment in Ukraine.A country is being torn apart due to it being caught in the overlapping spheres of influence of Russia and the EU.It seems slightly strange to think of the EU as engaging in Great Power politics (and it is fascinating to see the Poles and the Swedes being so assertive - hints of Westphalia), but have no doubt there is a geopolitical power grab unfolding and the result could be war and territorial division. The issue is no doubt poisoning the well of Russian/Western cooperation and it is going to be fascinating to see how Putin's muscular nationalist wrestles with the combination of the Ukrainian street consisting of everything from EU friendly democrats, to right wing Ukrainian nationalists, to Oligarchs who see more profit in the EU than Russian sphere. Putin is trying to make it as expensive as possible for the Ukraine to turn westwards, and is more than willing to use mob tactics to get his way ... but what is the West doing as well. The coverage is only just touching on the Great Game side of this little drama - and it is wonderfully Gothic - the US's nose is very much out of joint - f*** the EU! Ah, Great Power plots to overthrow governments and alter geopolitical alliances - all unfolding with an angry street and sniper fire. Interesting times. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Donald Trumps Posted February 25, 2014 Share Posted February 25, 2014 Somebody said last night that the Russians can't really intervene because the Russian speakers aren't Russian citizens, tho' they will do so if they're existence/security is threatened as in Georgia Lord knows how it will end Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
woolley Posted February 25, 2014 Share Posted February 25, 2014 He'll probably turn the gas off. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Donald Trumps Posted February 25, 2014 Share Posted February 25, 2014 Apparently he can't 'cause the same pipeline serves Europe Ruskies will definitely come up with some horrible punishment tho' Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hillshepherd Posted February 25, 2014 Share Posted February 25, 2014 a time for cool sensible pragmatists. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lxxx Posted February 25, 2014 Share Posted February 25, 2014 When the global economy turns down the war cycle turns up. History repeats. Again and again. We'll probably see other conflicts pop up as well elsewhere across the globe. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
woolley Posted February 25, 2014 Share Posted February 25, 2014 Apparently he can't 'cause the same pipeline serves Europe Ruskies will definitely come up with some horrible punishment tho' They cut it off before in 2009 over debts. Could see them doing it again. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Donald Trumps Posted February 25, 2014 Share Posted February 25, 2014 Chinese planning for short, sharp war against Japan Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
woolley Posted February 25, 2014 Share Posted February 25, 2014 Wasn't every war in history planned to be short and sharp? Declare war in haste, repent at leisure. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Donald Trumps Posted February 25, 2014 Share Posted February 25, 2014 Argies are re-arming & upgrading special forces (economy is going down the pan again) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gladys Posted February 25, 2014 Share Posted February 25, 2014 I recently visited Georgia, the chaps there were still pretty pissed off at Russia not just cutting the umbilical cord, but also throwing the baby out in the snow. They were very happy for Ukraine to move to Europe as it would help them move that way too. There are probably quite a few former USSR states who are quietly watching this one unfold. It carries much more significance than a one former satellite state tiff. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vulgarian Posted February 26, 2014 Share Posted February 26, 2014 It depends who you ask in former Soviet states as to what answer you get about Russia. The divisions of opinion can be along generational, economic, or geographic lines.They can also swing quite quickly. This is the problem in Ukraine where broadly speaking the eastern half of the country is pro Russia and the western half pro EU. And, as Chinahand said, there are many other people and groups with different interests one way or the other. This is why this has the potential to be such an awful conflict. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
2bees Posted February 26, 2014 Share Posted February 26, 2014 Yes, I was boring my sons with this last night, proper history being made. I am very scared of wars, I've 2 sons, I love them and I would hate for them to go in the army or anything like that. mrbees is worried about the China vs Japan troubles. Why can't we all just get along? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
j2bad Posted February 26, 2014 Share Posted February 26, 2014 As a student I hosted a party of visiting Ukrainian politicians including the then Mayor of Kiev, he wore Armani suits and was a complete party animal / womaniser who had a very direct line with the ladies 'you come to my room and drink vodka!'. The eastern / rural representatives wore cheap brown russian suits and only wanted to talk about tractors which sadly I did not know enough about. It was obvious they held a very negative view of western culture and they hated the Mayor of Kiev in particular, so much so that they would act like school children and turn their head away everytime he spoke and tried to keep physically distant at all times which created some great comedic moments. That was over 10 years ago and I doubt much has changed. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
woolley Posted February 26, 2014 Share Posted February 26, 2014 It depends who you ask in former Soviet states as to what answer you get about Russia. The divisions of opinion can be along generational, economic, or geographic lines.They can also swing quite quickly. This is the problem in Ukraine where broadly speaking the eastern half of the country is pro Russia and the western half pro EU. And, as Chinahand said, there are many other people and groups with different interests one way or the other. This is why this has the potential to be such an awful conflict. I think the obvious and inevitable outcome is partition. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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