Another Consultation

[hboy]

This 'consultation' is more about how the Government interacts with the residents than about speed limits

 

Conflict of Interests....

 

I don't buy that and suggest that the "government" collectively don't have to much of a view on the subject and accept that the limit is just one of a range of options open to them. But what you are seeing is a few individuals on some kind of single-handed George W Bush style mission to right all the wrongs with the manx road system by bringing in the limit. This is what happens when you have no party politics, there is no consensus on what needs to be done so in the resulting vaccuum you end up with a personal crusade. This is why I believe what the CM said on Manx Radio that he was unaware that the adverts had been released.

 

I doubt the government is that bothered providing that road deaths come down, and that people think they have had a fair chance to get their view across.

[Albert Tatlock]

Time for a few like-minded individuals to devote time to a petition methinks !?!

 

Who's up for some door knockin?

[Target]

I agree. Whats really needed is a proper sensible opposition group to a maximum speed limit that can effectively put across their side of the story in the media - be it through adverts or a designated spokes-person who deals with the media. Canvessing doors wouldn`t even be a bad idea !

 

I`m afraid I wouldn`t have a clue where to start in setting one up - but there must be many thousands (judging by the petition last year) that would be willing to sign up to join if there was one.

 

Know anyone suitable willing to set one up ?

[Gladys]

Wouldn't the trick be to bombard MHK's e.mails with a "Stop this hasn't been thought through" message with a copy of each one to the papers?

[Albert Tatlock]

Usually the best thing in cases like this is name, address and signature.

 

500 pages of A4 each with 30 signatures beats any 'consultation' and will show this 'consultation' up for what it really is. The simplest thing is to design a piece of paper for signatures - agree some areas to cover - and collect signatures door to door.

 

From what I have seen, there is already an organised 'against lobby' that submitted to the first enquiry WHO REALLY NEED TO GET INTO GEAR AND GET VOLUNTEERS ORGANISED.

 

All that is needed is a call for volunteers from the 'against lobby' - a pub to meet in - and off we go.

 

Average of 3 mins per house - 20 per hour....One weekend each - Sorted!

[Frances]

why not a simple compromise - red flash number plates are limited to 60mph (they know how bad the roads are), blue flash plates have special dispensation from dept of tourism to exceed any speed limit on basis that we need encourage such tourism (and even close public roads to make propaganda films) and anyway they bring trade to funeral parlours etc.

[dooahhdoo]

From what I have seen, there is already an organised 'against lobby' that submitted to the first enquiry WHO REALLY NEED TO GET INTO GEAR AND GET VOLUNTEERS ORGANISED.

 

Steady on there. There is something organised. Cant say too much about it yet as it is not confirmed 100% but when it is I will let you know.

[Albert Tatlock]

The problem with these ‘consultations’ is that when questionnaires are just sent to households, they tend to miss great swathes of the population.

 

If you look at the 2001 census figures:

 

The total population is 76,315

The total number of households is 31,521

Knocking out 44,794 people

 

Of those 44,794 there are 16,233 who are under 18 years of age

 

However, that still leaves 28,561 adults potentially with no say

 

For example, according to the census 6,832 people are between 18 and 25. I bet not many of them own their own house and many would probably still live with their parents – so in a ‘consultation’ it would be Mum or Dad who get to express the opinion of the household. Soon it will be the same for 1,700 16 year olds when they get the vote.

 

Listening to Manx Radio and reading the IOM newspapers are not obligatory and each person over 18 should be counted.

 

You either have a vote or you don't. If you have a vote - then you have the right to be consulted and not marginalised.

[Lonan3]

And can we please have a similar 'consultation' about banning smoking in public places (or any kind of consultation!)

[Bombay Bad Boy]

The problem with these ‘consultations’ is that when questionnaires are just sent to households, they tend to miss great swathes of the population.

Absolutely.

 

Lets look at some of the ways that this survey might have been done:

-Every resident of the Island

-Every adult (aged 18+)

-Every voter (aged 16+)

-All holders of a driving licence

-Petition on the Internet, from all interested parties (hosted by AvianPorcine internet services ?)

 

None of these, too many possible no's.

 

My own view is against such a limit. If the DoT were truly interested in road safety, then they would get their collective arses in gear for road improvements, urban calming measures, positioning of speed traps at sensible *places and times*, unmarked cars and CCTV for spotting bad driving, driver education, school talks from driving experts (not necessarily police) that don't sound like doom-mongering etc etc.

 

This whole thing stinks of a numbers game, such that the gov't can be seen to be doing something at minimum departmental cost, that might actually result in some income. Guys, you're running a country, not a business, it's not expected to make as much profit as possible.

As other forum members have pointed out, many of these lauded incidents have been by drivers already subject to a speed limit (R and L platers) . Driving lessons take you just far enough to pass the L test. How can learners be taught to overtake if they can't go over 50, even after they pass their test? This is where the subsidised advanced training comes in, just as the R plate is about to run out.

 

How about this: rebranding the 'unrestricted roads' meaning, instead of the perceived 'go as fast as you possibly can', to something more like 'speed dictated by driver discretion according to conditions'?

 

dooahhdoo, whatever you are doing, don't hang about, consultation is over soon..

'evil will flourish when good folk do nothing'

[Ripsaw]

Should driving lessons follow a "cirriculum" with a Driver's Log Book?

 

A couple of ideas (not necessarily good ones) to throw into the mix...

 

Bring back the need to pass the written test before taking to the road.

 

Minimum of 8 lessons with a registered driving instructor before taking the test (recorded in the Driver's Log Book). Lessons to include driving on derestricted roads as well as pulling out and turning off. 1 lesson to be "off public roads" to include emergency stops and evasive action.

 

R plated to be displayed for 12 months with current restrictions other than 50mph limit raised to 60mph.

 

Retest after minimum 12 month period, and not before 18th birthday, to verify that the driver can remove the R plates. Failure means retention of R plates and additional tests within defined period until passed.

 

The 16 to 21 age group are in the highest accident group, quite likely to be as a result of a lack of experience. If any retesting is required on the Island's drivers it should be as pasrt of the qualifying process.

 

For those who are older and have little regard for safe driving either the penalties need to be toughened up and more rigorously enforced an/or the need to resit the driving test shouldn't be exclusive to those serving bans.

[Ripsaw]

Phil Braidwood has responded to accusations of a "predudicial Campaign".

 

Clicky Link

 

Talking of road safety...

 

Selective Copy & Pasting Edited Quote:

 

A Lollypop man is at loggerheads with his bosses over child safety.

Michael Hunt fears there could be an accident after being told not to help children across a busy road...

 

...while the Department of Transport is happy for him to man the crossing on the Peel side of the A1 at its junction with Glen Darragh Road, Mr Hunt claims to have been told not to help youngsters cross Glen Darragh Road itself...

 

Mr Hunt has vowed to continue stopping traffic at the T-junction, where he has almost been hit by vehicles, and fears a child could be seriously hurt.

 

He said: 'The DoT knows it's an accident waiting to happen but has done nothing whatsoever to improve safety.

 

Director of highways Bruce Hannay said road safety near the school was investigated prior to Mr Hunt's appointment in September as recruitment had proved difficult.

 

A puffin crossing was considered, but the nature of the junction meant it wasn't suitable and a full set of traffic lights – which would have been unpopular with residents – would have been needed if a lollipop man hadn't been found.

 

...he said. 'We have no record of accidents at the junction of the Peel to Douglas road and Glen Darragh Road. We have to justify the expenditure of public money and cost wasn't a factor in our decision.

Full Article: IOM Online

[rallybug]

Just sent an email to the Highways Dept in reponse to the ministerial statement after Quintin Gill's comments (copied to John Sherrocks at IOM Newspapers)

 

With reference to the ministerial reply to Quintin Gill, MHK, I still see nothing to substantiate the use of the de-restricted roads accidents. What would be much more useful than, and I quote,

 

Data collected by the Police clearly shows that speed is the major contributor to accidents on the Isle of Man.

 

Between 1 January 2003 and 31 December 2005, there were 33 fatal and 210 serious Road Traffic Collisions on the Island’s road network. 39 people were killed and 233 were seriously injured. 30 of the 39 (77%) who lost their lives and 116 of the 233 (50%) who sustained serious injury, did so on roads with no speed limits.

17 of the worst accident hotspots are on roads with no speed limit. The Snaefell Mountain Road accounts for 12 of our 30 worst locations and over 40% of the total number of accidents, of which between 60% and 90% are speed-related.

 

would be the actual number of accidents that occurred where the vehicles involved were actually exceeding the proposed national speed limit. If the accident occurred at, say, 50-60mph, then obviously the proposed speed limit would have had no effect whatsoever.

 

With respect to the comment above that 60-90% of the accidents on the mountain road are speed-related, I have two issues – 60-90% is a huge margin and should be shown in a more realistic spread of percentages, and speed-related is too wide-ranging a term. Speed-related does not necessarily imply that the accident happened at a speed that would be above the proposed speed limit, only that inappropriate speed was a factor in the incident – on a day with bad weather, an accident could quite easily occur at 30mph over the mountain, and that would obviously be inappropriate speed for the conditions, and thus speed-related, not that the vehicle was travelling at excess speed for the road on a normal day.

 

I would be grateful for a prompt reply to my concerns.

[pedrohunter]

Why not just cancel the TT.

 

Loads of public money ploughed into it, with very little return to the vast majority of the population.

 

If the TT was abandoned there would be far less opposition to this sensible plan of introducing a national speed limit.

 

Whilst we are at it, we would also be able to get cats eyes in the middle of the road where they should be.

 

The roads are closed for a fraction of 1% of the year but the 'golden goose' that is TT affects our lives every day.

[ade]

Quick query. If the questionnaire can only be completed by Island residents, does this in turn imply that the statistics shown are compiled from accidents / fatalities of Island residents only?