Billy One Mate Posted November 22, 2006 Share Posted November 22, 2006 Hooooooray at last somebody else, comissioned by the IOM Government, has stated (in a round about way) LOCAL IS BEST Maybe somebody in the Ivory tower may at last take notice to what has been said to them by the Local Industry. Report Extracts Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nipper Posted November 22, 2006 Share Posted November 22, 2006 George Dunlop - a wiley Scotsman indeed. When the Construction Contracts Act came out on the Island a couple of years ago I tried to discuss some points with him after one of his lectures. He wasn't interesting in listening and discussing - just talking and telling people things they can easily find out for themselves or already know. It seems such folk are paid shed loads by our powers that be. A classic 'Consultant'. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Billy One Mate Posted November 22, 2006 Author Share Posted November 22, 2006 Nipper I have read the report from cover to cover. It appears pretty balanced and based on his interviews with numerous people in the Industry. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
manxman8180 Posted November 22, 2006 Share Posted November 22, 2006 I would agree with BoM, that the report is a pretty balanced look at the situation. I wouldn't agree that it strictly says 'Local is Best', to me it says 'You should consider paying the inflated costs of local contractors, due to the potential impact on Manx Fiscal benefit' Which, granted, isn't quite as eye-catching, but you get my drift. It gives a necessary bashing to CPU, who need exactly this (and probably more) to help them wake up and smell the coffee. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Theskeat Posted November 22, 2006 Share Posted November 22, 2006 'You should consider paying the inflated costs of local contractors.Which, granted, isn't quite as eye-catching, but you get my drift. Why is construction cost high on the Island. materials Labour Land Profesional fees Influx of those that can afford to pay the high prices resulting in the Tradesmen needing to earn a higher wage just to have the chance to buy. The profit margins in the construction industry are low and maybe only break even at some point. Work it out for yourselves how much it cost to employ a person at £11ph cards in, in the building trade, the next time your charged £16ph for work on your property. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
5-demerits Posted November 22, 2006 Share Posted November 22, 2006 I have also read the report and would agree it is well balanced. I also attended a seminar a week or so ago when we had the chance to hear points from the authors own mouth and also had the chance to respond to its contents. I must say my gut feeling is that the recommendations will not be fully taken up and it may end the same way as the Egan Report. For those of you whom are in this industry and wish to improve the overall industry perception it would be very worth while reading it from cover to cover. LINK For those of you who just bitch about everything and everyone, (you know who your are) you could always try to read and understand its contents as it may show you that there is much more to this industry than brush hands and work permits. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
patiom Posted November 22, 2006 Share Posted November 22, 2006 I have also read the report and would agree it is well balanced. I also attended a seminar a week or so ago when we had the chance to hear points from the authors own mouth and also had the chance to respond to its contents. I must say my gut feeling is that the recommendations will not be fully taken up and it may end the same way as the Egan Report. For those of you whom are in this industry and wish to improve the overall industry perception it would be very worth while reading it from cover to cover. LINK For those of you who just bitch about everything and everyone, (you know who your are) you could always try to read and understand its contents as it may show you that there is much more to this industry than brush hands and work permits. I thought it was you, very good meeting but havent you done nicely out of it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Juan Kerr Posted November 22, 2006 Share Posted November 22, 2006 For those of you who just bitch about everything and everyone, (you know who your are) you could always try to read and understand its contents as it may show you that there is much more to this industry than brush hands and work permits. Yeah. There are government contracts ... without which most of the firms here would be f**ked. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Billy One Mate Posted November 23, 2006 Author Share Posted November 23, 2006 I wouldn't agree that it strictly says 'Local is Best', to me it says 'You should consider paying the inflated costs of local contractors, due to the potential impact on Manx Fiscal benefit' 'It is strongly felt that the maintenance and development of the Island's built environment is so essential to future growth and stability, that action should be taken by Government and the private sector to adjust procedures in such a way to encourage sustainability in the Island.' I disagree I believe what he is saying is that a sustained local industry is important for the economic development of the Island. ie Local is Best I found the following document from about 10 years ago submitted to all MHKs at the time. THINK LOCAL, BUY LOCAL. The original slogan promoted by Sir Miles Walkers Government. This IOM Government policy appears to have been forgotten when it comes to the Islands construction Industry and increasingly an air of discontent is sweeping across Local Contractors, Subcontractors and Suppliers who are now seeing many Government Contracts being awarded to off Island Contractors. On the face of it the IOM Government can state that they are saving the taxpayer money by awarding a contract to an off Island Contractor who is cheaper than a Local Contractor, but what are the hidden costs to such a policy. A LOSS OF NATIONAL INSURANCE AND INCOME TAX. MONIES LEAVING THE MANX ECONOMY. APPRENTICE AND SKILLS TRAINING. FINANCIAL CONCERN & INSECURITY FOR LOCAL SUBCONTRACTORS & SUPPLIERS. LOCAL CONTRACTORS ARE AT RISK OF FINANCIAL RUIN BY TRYING TO COMPETE WITH NATIONAL UK CONTRACTORS WHO OPERATE WITH MINIMAL OVERHEAD COSTS ON THE ISLAND. IT IS ESTIMATED THAT THIS HIDDEN COST COULD BE IN THE REGION OF 10% How many of these off Island National Contractors have appeared on the Island only to have left three to five years later leaving many a problem for the Island Taxpayer. THE CHANNEL ISLANDS HAVE FOR MANY YEARS UNDERSTOOD THIS PROBLEM AND HAVE ASSURED THE PROSPERITY AND CONTINUATION OF ITS LOCAL CONSTRUCTION INDUSTRY BY INTRODUCING LEDGISLATION WHICH MAKES TENDERING A LEVEL PLAYING FIELD BY NULLIFYING THE OVERHEAD ADVANTAGE OF A NATIONAL UK CONTRACTOR. IT IS NOW TIME FOR THE ISLANDS INDUSTRY TO ACT BEFORE IT IS TOO LATE AND FORCE OUR GOVERNMENT TO ADOPT ITS OWN POLICY OF THINK LOCAL, BUY LOCAL WHEN IT COMES TO OUR INDUSTRY. IT IS THEREFORE PROPOSED THAT THE FOLLOWING IS ADOPTED IMMEADIATELY. ON ALL WORKS INVOLVING PUBLIC MONIES PREFERENCE IS TO BE GIVEN TO A LOCAL CONTRACTOR, SUBCONTRACTOR OR SUPPLIER WHEN THEY ARE NOT MORE EXPENSIVE THAN AN OFF ISLAND CONTRACTOR, SUBCONTRACTOR OR SUPPLIER BY 10% OF THE LOWEST PRICE RECEIVED AND CAN PERFORM, SUPPLY AND PRODUCE THE QUALITY AS REQUIRED UNDER THE TERMS OF CONTRACT. DEFINITION OF A LOCAL CONTRACTOR, SUBCONTRACTOR OR SUPPLIER. Place of business and registered address is in the Isle of Man. 100% Manx shareholders and directors. (Manx is as defined by the work permit legislation) The company pays all its tax and national insurance in the Isle of Man. It is known that there are some companies that have operated in the Islands construction industry for some considerable time and employ local labour and contribute considerably to the Islands Economy although the beneficial owners are off Island. In these instances these Companies are to be treated as though they are Manx subject to confirmation of their status by the IOM Employers Federation. It is apparent that some of the major Capital schemes that will be carried out on the Isle of Man may be too large or require certain technical expertise which would deter a Manx Company from tendering for the same, but we should be encouraging local companies to increase in size and obtain the necessary technical expertise in order that in the future this work also remains within the Islands Economy. To facilitate the above and to encourage the local construction industry to increase its level of expertise and available resources, on any Capital Scheme where the tenderers are not local companies they would receive the 10% benefit if they partner with a local company. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
manxman8180 Posted November 23, 2006 Share Posted November 23, 2006 I wouldn't agree that it strictly says 'Local is Best', to me it says 'You should consider paying the inflated costs of local contractors, due to the potential impact on Manx Fiscal benefit' 'It is strongly felt that the maintenance and development of the Island's built environment is so essential to future growth and stability, that action should be taken by Government and the private sector to adjust procedures in such a way to encourage sustainability in the Island.' I disagree I believe what he is saying is that a sustained local industry is important for the economic development of the Island. ie Local is Best Billy, I'm not disagreeing with you on the general thrust of the report. There is definietely a need for a sustainable construction sector on the Island, without question. However, 'Local is Best', is not exactly what is being said. You know it and I know it. Basically, they are saying that it is worth paying more to use local labour, for the long term beneift of the industry / Island. The general support for the Govt's own construction workers (i.e. DoT) may make a few eyebrows raise however. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nipper Posted November 23, 2006 Share Posted November 23, 2006 ...For those of you who just bitch about everything and everyone, (you know who your are) you could always try to read and understand its contents as it may show you that there is much more to this industry than brush hands and work permits. I haven't read the report, I didn't say I had. I was giving my opinion on a previous encounter with the author - a good talker. I am a part of the industry on the Island, back as far as the mid 1970s and the ups and the downs. Thanks for the link though, I'll give it a good read. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Theskeat Posted November 23, 2006 Share Posted November 23, 2006 SO LOCAL AINT BEST NEW HOSPITAL, BUILT BY UK COMPANY TO MANY DEFECTS TO LIST COURT HOUSE/REGISTRY, BUILT BY UK COMPANY MAJOR DEFECTS IRIS PROJECT, IRISH COMPANY, IT AINT FUCKING WORKING NEW PRISON, BEING BUILT BY IRISH COMPANY, AINT FINISHED BUT ALREADY MAJOR DEFECTS All the above named contracts have all run over costs, Local contractors now being employed to put the defects in order. Laxey wheel built by locals and still going strong Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Roger Smelly Posted November 23, 2006 Share Posted November 23, 2006 The trouble with the government is they have little common sense. Say a contract comes up to build 10 houses for the government. The manx company charges say £1 million The UK contractor charges £750.000 The UK contractor is cheaper but the problem is that they don't quote for the same work. alot of the time the UK contractor might have a open contract with the government meaning if it costs more they just ask for more so the £750.000 ends up going up to £1.5 million. But the Manx company has a closed contract meaning if they take a loss or come in late it comes out of their pocket. What i do find concerning is the local companies that only do government work, they are putting all their eggs in one basket and if the government cut back on work which from what i have been told is going to happen its jam roll for them :-( Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nipper Posted November 23, 2006 Share Posted November 23, 2006 Maybe the Isle of Man Government could have used George Dunlop and Knowles Limited to do a bit of other work for them like explain how contracts should work. Too late for the Hospital and the MEA, but I am sure they would have the expertise to: a ) Findout where the missing £millions went and, b ) How to do it properly next time JR Knowles Limited George Dunlop BSc MSc MEd FCIOB MCIM APA Knowles Limited, Cameron Court, Cameron Street, Hillington Park, Glasgow G52 4JH Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
manxman8180 Posted November 23, 2006 Share Posted November 23, 2006 SO LOCAL AINT BEST NEW HOSPITAL, BUILT BY UK COMPANY TO MANY DEFECTS TO LIST COURT HOUSE/REGISTRY, BUILT BY UK COMPANY MAJOR DEFECTS IRIS PROJECT, IRISH COMPANY, IT AINT FUCKING WORKING NEW PRISON, BEING BUILT BY IRISH COMPANY, AINT FINISHED BUT ALREADY MAJOR DEFECTS All the above named contracts have all run over costs, Local contractors now being employed to put the defects in order. Laxey wheel built by locals and still going strong local labour was used on all of those projects. Therefore, you must be questioning the quality of that labour, no? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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