Olympic Torch Relay

[victorian dad]

Bloody hell what a farce, amazing scenes on BBC News

[%age]

The Isle of Man is only too willing to make bond$ with China and I think it would be a nice ge$ture to bring it over here. There certainly wouldn't be any problem with protesters as we have enough to worry about over here such as with Horse Trams, Speed Limits and where to put the Wurlitzer.

 

Also, the Island is not averse to a touch of oppression.

[bluemonday]

Bet the chinese wished they'd been allowed to bring their little tanks over so they could deal with protestors as in the "Tiananmen method"

[localyokel]

Bet the chinese wished they'd been allowed to bring their little tanks over so they could deal with protestors as in the "Tiananmen method"

 

Exactly - this sort of protest in China would have had the troops out already.

[Albert Tatlock]

I saw loads of signs - but where can I claim my 'free Tibet' - is this available on the MR+ loyalty card?

[Declan]

I still await

My Free Kuwait.

The Sun promised me one

Back in 1991

But My Free Kuwait

Is very late.

[monasqueen]

Bet the chinese wished they'd been allowed to bring their little tanks over so they could deal with protestors as in the "Tiananmen method"

 

They'd have got lost in Terminal 5

[Pat Ayres]

I still await

My Free Kuwait.

The Sun promised me one

Back 1991

But My Free Kuwait

Is very late.

 

Excellent, very well done Declan.

[WTF]

Bet the chinese wished they'd been allowed to bring their little tanks over so they could deal with protestors as in the "Tiananmen method"

 

they could get them to liverpool no problem, but they couldn't afford the ferry to get them here.

[Freggyragh]

Does anyone know the Chinese for 'Free Afganistan', or 'Free Iraq' - I reckon there'd be a huge demand for T-shirts printed with a slogan like that - from now until the London Olympics.

[Skeddan]

What is 'Free Tibet' calling for? Is it the same as 'Free Afghanistan' - i.e. end foreign occupation and obtain / regain sovereign independence free of foreign subjugation? What would a 'Free Tibet' be like? Would the Dalai Lama's proposals really result in a 'Free Tibet'? (sure it's hypothetical, but just wondering)

 

While unlikely, perhaps it's not entirely improbable that an increasingly militant faction in Tibet may actively displace the political leadership of the Dalai Lama (while recognising his spiritual leadership). What this could potentially result in is a unilateral declaration of independence - something which in international law might be warranted given oppression of Tibetans. That would certainly up the ante and require nations to take a stance - in recognising - or refusing to - and start to involve UN and Charter obligations etc. in ways that Dalai Lama's strategy fails to.

 

To encourage that maybe there should be T-shirts with 'Tibet: set yourself free'.

[Frances]

maybe the Tibetans should declare a EEZ (or does this require to be sitting on an oil reservoir) and blow the hans out of the 'water' ?

[Chinahand]

Not certain how government's in exile work, but the Dalai Lama has an elected prime minister etc. The Dalai Lama is spiritual and politically titular, but his conception of his role is in some ways similar to the Queen defender of the faith and all that and head of state/region, but with little actual power.

 

Where this relates to the UN Charter I haven't got a clue, but the Dalai Lama wants a constitutional system similar to Hong Kong and Macau and which the Chinese moot as a solution for Taiwan. Its called one country two systems would become one country many systems, but its totally vetoed by the CCP who use cultural revolution style language to attack the Dalai Lama clique.

 

You slightly need to understand Chinese politics to get this cartoon, but it sums up the situtation pretty well.

 

[Skeddan]

maybe the Tibetans should declare a EEZ (or does this require to be sitting on an oil reservoir) and blow the hans out of the 'water' ?

I thought they were sitting on a very great deal of oil. Even so, I don't think they have any scallops to protect (like IoM at present), besides which last I saw Tibet was landlocked - but I defer to your skills on such matters.

 

In any case there must be some really huge cost downside with declaring an EEZ which means that this shouldn't be done unless there is extremely good reason. (beyond fish, shellfish, lobsters, etc.). Just think of all that extra fuel the Barrule might have to use to protect these resources! IoMG is dead sensible - don't even try and protect fishing within the territorial sea beyond easy rowing distance.

 

and blow the hans out of the 'water' ?

No I disagree. They should have learnt from IoMG - don't do anything that might possibly in any way upset the culturally superior country in control - like making a noise about them exploiting your own resources, standing up for one's rights, or trying to make the place a bit less totalitarian. No, those silly Tibetans only have themselves to blame for their troubles and don't deserve any support or sympathy. They would have done well to have learnt their place and follow IoM's superior example of non-violent acquiescence rather than their preposterous non-violent resistance.

 

(I'm practising for the Manx citizenship test I hear they might be introducing - how am I doing? )

[Chinahand]

Over the protests I'm a bit conflicted. I totally agree with the right to protest, and despise the repression ongoing all over China.

 

But there is a serious nationalistic backlash on going in China which is being masterly spun by the CCP. The ordinary Chinese are being told the west hates them and will tell lies to encourage the breaking up of China just like Yugoslavia. Some sloppy reporting has allowed the one lie to ruin the 100 truths told about Chinese repression.

 

The Chinese are a hugely welcoming people, and genuinely want to show off the massive progress and work they have achieved in the last decades. They also have a strong sense of decorum and the 老百姓 the Chinese common people have reacted very strongly against the protests in the West.

 

I can see the current kerfuffles being used against those wanting a more open China. Part of the CCP's case is that democracy will bring chaos and violence. They spin the Cultural Revolution as democracy. They also use China's huge population and social problems as a reason for "strong, stable rule": if the CCP weakens its grip anarchy will break out, China will break up and all the progress that has been made will be lost. The common people are genuinely concerned about this.

 

The result could very well be a violent and frenetic year with protest and demonstrations both within and without China, but with the overall result of hardening the attitudes of the ordinary Chinese against the west, making for a more nationalistic, authoritarian country determined to do its own thing no matter what.

 

If that is the case the CCP will be happy; and those concerned with Human Rights in China will have lost some of the small leverage they had to keep this country, which no matter what will dominate this century, on the track to liberty and democracy.