Albert Tatlock Posted March 24, 2006 Share Posted March 24, 2006 Even if we call them contractors? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LoneWolf Posted March 24, 2006 Share Posted March 24, 2006 Even if we call them contractors? Nice one Problem wont go away though. The same laws protect contractors as well. In the case of pubs I would suggest it would be the owner / operator of the licensed premises who would have the duty of care. Would still be a workplace. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Albert Tatlock Posted March 24, 2006 Share Posted March 24, 2006 Even if we call them contractors? Nice one Problem wont go away though. The same laws protect contractors as well. In the case of pubs I would suggest it would be the owner / operator of the licensed premises who would have the duty of care. Would still be a workplace. Lonewolf...You are obviously up-to-date on health and safety legislation...so why is it not possible for us to opt-out of certain clauses via our own legislation? This happened in the UK with social and employment policy (compared to the EU). The Isle of Man is not part of the EU, and has its own government. Surely with a combination of employment & contract law/H&S legislation, the IOM could legislate an opt-out if it wanted. A forced 'opt-out' is already applied by insurance companies against smokers. After all, we are not asking people to suck asbestos here, we are simply asking prospective employees whether they smoke. If they smoke, they remove their rights for litigation against their employer, if they don't smoke then they will have to seek work in a non-smoking pub. Existing employees can be financially protected under such law (which I am sure the breweries would back). If companies can freely advertise for non-smokers, surely they can be permitted to advertise for smokers? The law (in the main) is only what MHK's decide it to be. Plus of course the law in the UK was prepared to be ammended in the compromise. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Night Shift Posted March 24, 2006 Share Posted March 24, 2006 Albert Its good to have you here as the computer talk has been a bit boring or rather quiet these past few days and weeks and you have shown a point of view I agree with at last. Thanks you for coming here No one ever thinks about us lot do they. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Night Shift Posted March 24, 2006 Share Posted March 24, 2006 You can find a good example of this failure in Lewis Carroll's "Through the Looking Glass", where there is sad character known as the White Knight, who's taken the advice "Change is good" too literally. That Alice in Wonderland and the Looking Glass books do my head in. I saw this joke: (Sorry it isn't to do with smoking but it is to do with the book and a white rabbit rather than a white knight!!!) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spatula girl Posted March 29, 2006 Share Posted March 29, 2006 From MR website today 'A move towards banning smoking in public places has moved a step nearer – after the Public Health Tobacco Bill cleared its final hurdle in the House of Keys.' Sorry for being thick but does this mean people won't be able to smoke in the street? Of is it just worded wrong Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FinloYessir Posted March 29, 2006 Share Posted March 29, 2006 We're binge-drinking because we can afford to like never before. That hits the nail squarely on the head, Mrs. T. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
manxman8180 Posted March 29, 2006 Share Posted March 29, 2006 Sorry for being thick but does this mean people won't be able to smoke in the street? Of is it just worded wrong Sounds like it is worded wrong. Most other legislation has concerned 'enclosed' public spaces. So the street wouldn't normally come under that jurisdiction. But you never know...... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Albert Tatlock Posted March 29, 2006 Share Posted March 29, 2006 From MR website today'A move towards banning smoking in public places has moved a step nearer – after the Public Health Tobacco Bill cleared its final hurdle in the House of Keys.' Sorry for being thick but does this mean people won't be able to smoke in the street? Of is it just worded wrong With the IOM's record on 'cut and paste' legislation they will probably adopt a law similar to the UK. The ban in the UK does not include outdoors, private homes, and places similar to 'home' such as rooms in hotels and hostels, care homes, prisons and oil rigs, and other places of work, such as delivery vans owned and driven by one driver (exceptions that show there is room for compromise even under H&S legislation). In the UK bans are to be enforced in substantially enclosed places i.e. indoors and partially covered venues - the open areas of which make up less than half their total area. So, if 40% of a pub's garden area was covered, for example, then the ban would not apply. But if 60% of it was covered, then the ban would apply. This even means that many existing outside 'smoking shelters' will end up with panels having to be kicked out so they comply. The problem is that most IOM pubs are not like pubs in Ireland, Scotland or the UK as they have little space never mind a beer garden (except for a back lane or pavement) - and the majority are going to struggle to provide outside facilities for smoking customers. In Scotland, for example, a whole raft of planning issues has prevented licensees from developing facilities for smokers and many hundreds of pubs are having problems. Can you imagine the planning fuss here and the lack of planning support, especially as most IOM pubs tend to be close to residential areas. Smokers on the 'street' are being tackled in the UK via on the spot litter fines. Trouble is most councils don't provide suitable bins. Those that believe that such a ban is going to 'work' as it 'does' in Dublin really need to think again. Otherwise take a last look at some of the oldest pubs on the island. After 2008 people will probably be able to smoke in them - as by then they will have been converted into flats. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FinloYessir Posted March 29, 2006 Share Posted March 29, 2006 If smoking was banned it would probably help them kick the habit, If only smokers could see the damage they are doing to themselves. If drinking was banned it would probably help them kick the habit, If only drinkers could see the damage they are doing to themselves. If junk food eating was banned it would probably help them kick the habit, If only junk food eaters could see the damage they are doing to themselves. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Albert Tatlock Posted March 30, 2006 Share Posted March 30, 2006 Gordon Bennett! According to iomonline, Bushy's and Heron and Brearley have confirmed prices are going up yet again! "Heron and Brearley has this week applied its third price rise in four months – taking the price of a pint up another 2p. Bushy's annual increase will be 5 per cent – a 10p rise in the price of a pint." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jacqueline Posted March 30, 2006 Share Posted March 30, 2006 You might almost think that the brewery wants to lose some of their pubs so they could turn them into opportunities for re-development. Can't think why. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr. Sausages Posted March 30, 2006 Share Posted March 30, 2006 It's an experiment. They're gonna turn the pubs that close into "smoke pubs" to compete with "drink pubs". The former will sell a variety of cigarettes, and allow people to smoke but not drink. The latter will sell a variety of alcoholic drinks, and allow people to drink but not smoke. Then everybody will be catered for. Grrrrrreat. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lonan3 Posted March 30, 2006 Share Posted March 30, 2006 It's an experiment. They're gonna turn the pubs that close into "smoke pubs" to compete with "drink pubs". The former will sell a variety of cigarettes, and allow people to smoke but not drink. Both of the latter will sell a variety of alcoholic drinks and be filled with health freaks drinking Evian water and Kaliber. Fixed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Albert Tatlock Posted March 30, 2006 Share Posted March 30, 2006 It's an experiment. They're gonna turn the pubs that close into "smoke pubs" to compete with "drink pubs". The former will sell a variety of cigarettes, and allow people to smoke but not drink. The latter will sell a variety of alcoholic drinks, and allow people to drink but not smoke. Then everybody will be catered for. Grrrrrreat. All we have to do now is double the speed of our pub crawls - which'll keep both the smokers and drinkers fit (oops - forgot about having to pass twice as many kebab shops). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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