Amadeus Posted March 20, 2006 Author Share Posted March 20, 2006 how many non-UK immigrants are working here illegally and are entitled to receive benefits and public serviceswhere did you lift this from as surely if they are here illegaly they are entitled to no benefits. Even legal immigrants must wait 5 yrs before being entitled to benefits, although it should be longer I think. Examiner, page 9 - full sentence is: The number of foreign nationals living in the Island will be requested by Mr Henderson, who wants details of how many non-UK immigrants are working here illegally and are entitled to receive benefits and public services. Just had a look through the Residence Act 2001 Residence Act (PDF) Residence Act (HTML version) The main point of it seems to be the requirement to register when you live here - a thing that's totally normal in Germany - you have to register at your local gov office within 2 or 3 weeks from arriving, even if you're German and just moving to another town or city. Maybe that would be a suitable tool to tackle any immigration related problems that may occur... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Charles Flynn Posted March 21, 2006 Share Posted March 21, 2006 Wars have been fought for these freedoms we hold dear. Who are we to say no to a person in need, how would it feel if the shoe was on the other foot. Totally agree. My original concern was that my MHK was asking these questions. I was very worried that there were racial possibilities behind them and to be quite honest it just didn't sound typical of Bill Henderson. To bar people who have genuine need for one reason or another must be wrong. I have always been against discrimination and particularly on the grounds of race or colour. I just hope this doesn't end in a witch hunt from some of the more dubious MHK's and I do not include Mr Henderson in this category. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Roger Smelly Posted March 21, 2006 Share Posted March 21, 2006 Charles i think most people have some sort of moral value, i agree with most of what you said, personally i think Bill is just trying to make a noise as its an election year. Has anyone else realised that come january this year most MHK's have decided to wake up ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tugger Posted March 21, 2006 Share Posted March 21, 2006 I'm not even convinced by the "wrong kind of immigration" arguments. I think that the competition among employers is more fierce for the less-skilled jobs, not lawyers, accountants and doctors. It's easy to place restrictions on the benefits system, but otherwise, I'm all in favour of new arrivals. There's an Asian food store on Castle Street now - no way would there have been such a thing without some of our recently arrived "guest-workers". I like the idea of new folk, particularly if they're a bit different, coming in. It livens the place up a bit Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Old Git Posted March 21, 2006 Share Posted March 21, 2006 Who are we to say no to a person in need, how would it feel if the shoe was on the other foot. How do you define need? Someone escaping from an oppressive regime, in fear of their life, or someone who just fancies a better lifestyle? As for the shoe on the other foot, there's huge swathes of the world where I can't freely go to live and work - USA, Australia, The EU, to name but a few Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ripsaw Posted March 21, 2006 Share Posted March 21, 2006 With due respect to Henderson and Houghton, both have been 2 of the more vocal MHKs during the past few years. That said, 90% (wild guess) of Henderson's are specificly related to the Health service 90% (another wild guess) of Houghtons questions relate to the Cheshire Police enquiry. As a Manx resident I appreciate that there are questions that need answering about the above subjects, as a constituent I'd like to see them do more than pamper to/attack their former workmates/employers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hugh Jampton Posted March 21, 2006 Share Posted March 21, 2006 but immigration control is a discrimination against people of another nationality, race and colour. ie non manx in our country. The same as other countries, I do not think the state of the UK is to be envied at all. I would not want 58% of voters, in say Pulrose, to be asian moslems as in Bethnnal Green and Bow is. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GD4ELI Posted March 21, 2006 Share Posted March 21, 2006 As the Chief Minister said (indirectly), immigration control will work both ways, requiring a young generation born on the Island to be effectively stuck here. Think about the people on the Island who do something, how many are come-overs? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Old Git Posted March 21, 2006 Share Posted March 21, 2006 As the Chief Minister said (indirectly), immigration control will work both ways, requiring a young generation born on the Island to be effectively stuck here. Why? Legal migration is OK, it's the illegal migragtion that's can be a problem Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hboy Posted March 21, 2006 Share Posted March 21, 2006 As a Manx worker I can't get an E101 to cover any medical treatment when I drive down to Spain because I have no EU social security rights (unlike a UK resident). If I crash the car unless I've taken out private cover, or my travel insurance covers it I'm up sh*t creek because I won't get hospital treatment. I accept that and deal with it. In my mind therefore this works two ways and people who have paid nothing into the Manx system, or come from countries where no social security credit system is in place, should be treated the same way here. Again not a racist comment - pure economics. Plus as the "old git" says above many Manx residents only have the right to work in the UK, they have no employment rights across the EU at all, so if were stuck here anyway we might as well ask some questions and make sure the same rules apply to everyone. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hboy Posted March 21, 2006 Share Posted March 21, 2006 There are numerous people who have settled on the Island, over a heck of a long time, who dont fit the economic profile set out at the beginning of this post. It is no less heinous to discriminate on the grounds of social or economic class than it is to discriminate on the grounds of race or disability or gender. I agree. I shouldn't have quantified worth in financial terms (but its an easy one to use). What the Island needs to attract is "stakeholders" who are economically or intellectually committed to the Island and its way of life. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Albert Tatlock Posted March 21, 2006 Share Posted March 21, 2006 The news reports on the 19 illegal immigrants taken into custody covered 'difficulties with prisoners who can’t speak English, have special dietary requirements and religious beliefs.' shows just who they are targeting (and I don't mean the Irish). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Juan Kerr Posted March 21, 2006 Share Posted March 21, 2006 The news reports on the 19 illegal immigrants taken into custody covered 'difficulties with prisoners who can’t speak English, have special dietary requirements and religious beliefs.' shows just who they are targeting (and I don't mean the Irish). I didn't see anyone provided with free Turkish lessons and communion wine in "Midnight Express" As usual some people expect more than others. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pat Ayres Posted March 21, 2006 Share Posted March 21, 2006 As a comeover I agree with most of what has been written. I can't get housing for 10 years even if there were houses to have and then the waiting list is something like 10 years long, on average. So no scroungers there then. Benefits are payable after 6 mths in a limited way, 1 yr bring more benefits if they are needed and genuine reasons are given. Just the above acts as an immigration control for the less 'useful' members of the EU to come here. I think it is great you have to look after yourself for some years if you come here, most people can do just that and contribute vast amounts to the island in both cultural input and financial terms. many 'immigrants' actually create wealth and commerce, so that should be encouraged. Anyone playing the racist card here obviously doesn't understand racism and racial discrimination very well. Limiting someones' rights to benefits is sensible, prudent and necessary to avoid a drain on the public purse. When someone has contributed enough to the island they are entitled to the islands' support in times of trouble, that is justice and humanity. I would like to see the Act come into force, even though it might remove some benefits from me, I don't know as I haven't read it lately. I'll have a butchers toonight and see what I lose. In the same breath I here on the radio they(??) expect the population to hit 80k in the next ten years, I think they are underestimating a lot, I see 90k+ as a possibility with the amount of building that appears to be going on. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frances Posted March 21, 2006 Share Posted March 21, 2006 Isn't all the new infrastructure (hospital, iris, incinerator ...) designed for 100-120k population ? - I thought 90k was already reached Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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