Norman Kember Freed

[FinloYessir]

These men were men of peace. They did not believe in violence. Mr Kemper is a retired medical Professor.

 

 

 

So what exactly was he doing in Iraq?

 

Besides putting people's lives at risk?

 

The indisputable fact is that it is a war zone, and he knew it.

 

Thankfully the rescue was without fatalities, but if there had been, and if my son was injured or even killed, say, then I would be thinking some very bad thoughts about Mr. Kember and his ilk indeed.

[FinloYessir]

They were Christian peacemakers.

 

 

Like the Crusades?

 

No they were Christian sh*t-kickers

 

 

Ah, like the peacemaking Sinn Fein (sp?) and the sh*t-kicking IRA?

 

I see.

[Declan]

What annoyed me was after the news of his release came through all his chums have been babbling on about "we just thank God he's alright." Nevermind God it's the bloody army they should be thanking.

 

I wonder what Kember will say when he gets interviewed? If it is "I was right to go and I'll go again", and if he burbles on about God without a word for the men whose lives he imperilled by his fools errand, we will know he is completely immoral.

[Rog]

Kember and his kind are quite simply bloody fools.

 

They are a gift to our enemy by their very existence but especially so when they can be used as tools. Even their release will be exploited.

 

Kember and his kind are quite simply bloody fools.

 

They are a gift to our enemy by their very existence but especially so when they can be used as tools. Even their release will be exploited.

 

As a Christian he and his kind should know better. There ARE such things as righteous wars that MUST be fought and the present world war is such a case.

 

If we loose it there will BE no Christians.

[FinloYessir]

Declan, Rog,

 

Seconded.

[FinloYessir]

Oh, dear.

 

From Skynews:

 

It has emerged another member of Christian Peacemaker Teams is planning to travel to Iraq.

 

Jan Benvie, from Edinburgh, has defended her right to go despite Foreign Office advice warning against it.

 

She said: "We make it clear that if we are kidnapped, we do not want there to be force or any form of violence used to release us.

 

"If the Government or military commanders choose to do that, that is their responsibility."

[Rog]

Oh, dear.

 

From Skynews:

 

It has emerged another member of Christian Peacemaker Teams is planning to travel to Iraq.

 

Jan Benvie, from Edinburgh, has defended her right to go despite Foreign Office advice warning against it.

 

She said: "We make it clear that if we are kidnapped, we do not want there to be force or any form of violence used to release us.

 

"If the Government or military commanders choose to do that, that is their responsibility."

 

Being a bad minded cynical old bastard I just wonder of these idiots, especially now, don’t have some form of agenda based on moral blackmail of our government whereby they know that concessions WILL be made to get them freed and that getting these concessions made is their way to strike at our war effort and so ‘stop the war’.

[Lonan3]

Wonderful idea - peacemaking Christians interfering trying to help in a Muslim country which has just been invaded by a Christian 'liberating force.'

Just how stupid are these bloody god-botherers? Can't they find something to do in their own country that would give them the warm glow of self-satisfaction that they seem to crave?

I happily give to charities that I feel are useful: Christian Aid - never a single penny!

[Charles Flynn]

I agree the men of the SAS should receive the thanks of the nation. They are brave men who are in Iraq because of a decision which I for one think was wrong and said so publically at the time.

 

It is also true some peacemakers are putting innocent lives at risk and should consider more carefully what they are doing. However most people will be pleased to see these men rescued even if they have been foolish to get involved. They should take advice and act on it before they put themselves and others at risk. I thought the same when Terry Waite was captured. Bravery must be tempered with common sense and their responsibility to their families and others who are charged with rescuing them if things go wrong. The same applies to contractors who are in Iraq.

 

As for Christian Aid - I support it and organise the collections and collect in my own area as it is humanitarian for people who need help. The provision of clean water is a duty for all. Our collections were 40% up last year in my patch. However those who think they don't contribute to Christian Aid they do as the Manx Government through their Overseas Aid currently matches £1 for £1 of monies collected. If you don't agree with this perhaps you should contact your MHK. After all it is your choice which charities you wish to support. For those of us who do agree,we will be interested to see what happens and if it comes to a vote who is for and against any changes.

 

Most people will give to Christian Aid but there is a minority who don't because they give to other charities, are anti Christian, they can't afford it or are mean spirited. We are all part of the one world and so we have to accept the different views and even take some of the comments on this Forum with a pinch of salt. Why not? At least it makes us think and know that there is another side to every argument.

[hboy]

Just how stupid are these bloody god-botherers? Can't they find something to do in their own country that would give them the warm glow of self-satisfaction that they seem to crave?

 

I think that there is an element of that in what they do, self-evidently they do good work but it is getting like a sort of competition with these people as to where they are prepared to go and what they are prepared to do, and every time the Foreign Office issues a statement that says "Its bloody dangerous in here, you'd be mad to go" this seems to spur more on to do just that.

 

On that basis its sheer lunacy to go anywhere near Iraq, particularly as Bush clearly thinks in his mind that this is a "Christian Crusade" and that he is in some way bringing "civilisation" (ie democracy) to Iraq.

 

I certainly support what Christian Aid do, but I question whether they are providing aid purely because they are christians, or giving aid in order to convert desparate people into christians.

 

If I was starving and someone gave me bread, I'd sign up to any religion no matter how bizarre it was in order to get more. Its simple human nature, which is why I too am cynical when people feel the need link humanitarian aid to accepting certain religious beliefs.

 

If you care about people its simply "aid" - christian, muslim or hindu don't enter into it

[Charles Flynn]

hboy,

 

Speaking for myself I do not support linking conversion to any religion as a condition of aid. As far as I am aware Christian Aid is not related to your faith or lack of faith. If it was I would resign as an organiser.

 

There was a query from someone about whether some people are paid. None of the organisers or door to door collecters are paid nor would we want to be. We are volunteers. However those involved higher up the ladder in administration for instance are paid but I have have no details about the rate.

[LoneWolf]

There seems to be something not quite right about Christian PeacemakerTeams.

I found their web site slightly disturbing.

 

Christian PeacemakerTeams

[Charles Flynn]

They certainly have their own evangelical approach and their theology is rather strange. The apparent absence of any thank you to the service men who rescued them smacks of not being grateful but it is probably something to do with their emphasis on non violence and not wanting to be involved with soldiers.

They appeared to have been in Iraq to lobby as go betweens on behalf of those who were being detained by the Americans and Iraqi authorities without trial.

 

I am not sure this is helpful in these situations. !n fact it probably makes matters much worse.

 

There is a saying that some are too heavenly minded to be of any earthly use. I wonder if this is appropriate. Some things are best left to normal diplomatic channels.

[Rog]

There is a saying that some are too heavenly minded to be of any earthly use. I wonder if this is appropriate. Some things are best left to normal diplomatic channels.

 

And some by the simple expedient of taking out the trash.

[James Anderton]

Most people will give to Christian Aid but there is a minority who don't because they give to other charities, are anti Christian, they can't afford it or are mean spirited.

 

I'm part of the minority. If i dont fall into one of your first three three categories how exactly am i mean spirited. None of my friends consider me so. If i dont want to give to charity i dont have to have a reason and i take exception at being branded such by a person who has never met me nor knows anything about me.

 

I'd like to see the UK Government bill Kembers charity for costs incurred and do the same for any that follow in his footsteps. For all their bravado about not wanting help by force if they are taken they all know that the UK Government has a duty of care to them and must take whatever steps necessary to free them.

 

I believe it is they who are 'mean spirited' knowing full well they may well end up risking the lives of uk soldiers for the sake of spreading the 'word' in the guise of helping others.

 

When I see them sat in their orange jackets i dont think 'oh thats awful' i just flick over and watch countdown or some other crap. I have no time for them i have time for people who dont feel interfering is a 'god' given right.