Ripsaw Posted March 28, 2006 Share Posted March 28, 2006 They did if you read the document you quoted above correctly Sorry to be obtuse/pedantic*, but I doubled checked and "The No Limit petition of 1325 Manx residents should also be taken into consideration at this stage" doesn't appear in either of the documents that I linked to. That comment appears in this document which I am just reading before I go to bed. * delete as applicable Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cret Posted March 29, 2006 Share Posted March 29, 2006 A few unmarked traffic cars would help as they'd be able to catch out some of the obscenely bad drivers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Albert Tatlock Posted March 29, 2006 Share Posted March 29, 2006 Tongue in cheek or maybe a bit closer to the truth? Suggested Consultation questions for the introduction of a speed limit Question 1: Having considered the risks associated with speed limits and the effects on others, do you think that further action needs to be taken to reduce people’s exposure to speeding vehicles? Question 2. Would you support a law that would improve road safety? Question 3. If a law to introduce speed limits were brought in, do you think there should be any exemptions to it? Instructions to Post Office statistical analysts (after you have finished your morning deliveries) 1. Send out leaflets and add poll to website. 2. Add up all the post replies (don’t worry if several hundred seem to be in the same handwriting). 3. Add up all the web replies (don’t check IP numbers etc. to see whether people have voted on the issue several times). 4. Discount any replies with an address outside of the Isle of Man (there is no need to check that the responses received from the Isle of Man all actually came from the Isle of Man – or if they represent the views of the entire household). 5. Add the post and web replies together. You may use a calculator. The questionnaire has been designed to make your life easier, as people answering yes to question 1 will tend to answer yes to question 2. So a quick way to double check your totals is that these numbers will be roughly the same. 6. Place all answers to question 3 in the file marked ‘bin’. 7. If the ‘No’ responses to question 2 are greater than the ‘Yes’ responses to question 2, go back to 1 and start again. 8. Forward your results to the House of Keys Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Albert Tatlock Posted March 29, 2006 Share Posted March 29, 2006 I do worry about such 'consultations' as the public have no way of knowing if the results are fair. ...Consultations really don't hold any weight with me. CONSULTATION: From Manx Gaelic – meaning to CON and inSULT the intelligence of a nATION Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Albert Tatlock Posted April 4, 2006 Share Posted April 4, 2006 I see the MR website news page today also carries the story 'major survey of public opinion to be carried out in the Isle of Man over a National Speed limit' Why don't they listen? We told you the answer the first time! We don't want a speed limit! Can't you read? http://www.gov.im/lib/docs/highways/RoadSa...resultsofco.pdf How would you politicians feel if we had elections every couple of months just because we didn't like something you said? Useless Department Fact Did you know that the island has 688 miles of roads and 707 people in the department of transport (excluding Post Office statistical analysts!)... ...Let's have a consultation on that! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CableGuy Posted April 4, 2006 Share Posted April 4, 2006 Saying 'we do not want a speed limit' is saying that your opinion is the same as everyone else's. When in fact if you look at the DOT pdf you link to, it states that of the 408 letters received - 281 were against and 109 were for an all island speed limit and the others didn't express a particular view. And of the 281 against, 42 were non island residents. Therefore 239 manx residents are against it and 109 are for the speed limit ( Approx 69% against and 31% for). So therefore a number of people are for the all island speed limit. Also given that there are about 80,000 people on the island, the 366 manx resident letters equates to roughly 0.005% of the island population, hardly a statistic on which you can base the opinion that we don't want a speed limit. Granted there were also over 3100 names on the no limit website, but once again only about 40% were manx residents - approx 1325. Which is again not a broad overview of peoples opinions given that there wasn't a website setup for people who wanted an all island speed limit. I am not saying the speed limit will be an all encompassing solution to traffic accidents etc but what i am saying is that at least this time the government is giving all the island residents a chance to give their opinion. Bear in mind there may be a lot of the older generation who may not have the inkling to write letters to the DOT about the speed limit or have internet access to vote on websites - having a leaflet through their door makes it a simple and easy way to guage their opinion. You may say its a waste of time / money but I don't. I don't think printing a load of leaflets and getting the PO to drop them through peoples doors is going to break the bank. Just because the majority of people on this forum are against the all island speed limit doesn't mean that the rest of the island residents are. I myself will be very interested in the results, but of course if the results come out in favour of the speed limit there will be the usual 'fix' allegations by the more cynical members of the forum. I am not overly bothered if the limit comes in or not, which I think is also quite a common attitude amongst a number of mates of mine. You will all have your chance to note down your opinion when the leaflet comes through your door. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Theskeat Posted April 4, 2006 Share Posted April 4, 2006 Its not a speed limit the Island needs, it needs better drivers, drivers on the Island have to be the worst in Europe. To many kids and pensioners on your roads for a start. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hboy Posted April 4, 2006 Share Posted April 4, 2006 A few unmarked traffic cars would help as they'd be able to catch out some of the obscenely bad drivers. Therein lies the issue. As well as the appalling driving standards, I only seem to see police cars racing too accidents I don't ever think I have seen one on patrol in the last couple of years. The DOT can do what they like but do they think that if they have a 60mph Island limit it won't stop some berk in a Saxo VTR on R plates throwing it off the Mountain at 90mph with 5 people inside it at 3am? The answer clearly is that it will not. It should be easy to police the roads here but when was the last time you even saw a speed trap? They really have given up. Its pitiful. To reduce speeds on the mountain all you need is two fast patrol cars up there at peak times pulling people over, and a speed gun at different points every day. That is how you make the road safe and stop half of the tossers who speed and overtake on corners on a daily basis. An all Island limit is a political cop out designed to make people not accountable for the problem. It will not reduce deaths but at least someone can say "Sorry we tried by bringing in the limit, but nothings changed but at least I'm not responsible" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dooahhdoo Posted April 4, 2006 Share Posted April 4, 2006 Cableguy, can you explain why you do not count any of the votes from off Island people? These people who visit our fair Isle are many peoples bread and butter. Yes, I am talking about the TT but I am also talking about lots of different visits by various car clubs throughout the year. I don't see why these people who have taken the time to sign up on the site do not get counted? Its a joke and manipulation of figures of which the DOT are very good with. Lets see if ths comes in. If it does then I know who I will vote for in November. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LoneWolf Posted April 4, 2006 Share Posted April 4, 2006 Its not a speed limit the Island needs, it needs better drivers, drivers on the Island have to be the worst in Europe. To many kids and pensioners on your roads for a start. Not been to Spain lately then ? I agree we would probably all benefit from improving our road sense and driving skills. We can only hope that when a speed limit is introduced it is set at reasonable levels and not at some arbitrarily chosen blanket value. Question is .. given that it might be adopted .... is it better to fight for sensible limits from within the speed limit faction .... or is it better to just oppose the policy on the grounds we dont like it ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bombay Bad Boy Posted April 5, 2006 Share Posted April 5, 2006 It should be easy to police the roads here but when was the last time you even saw a speed trap? They really have given up. Its pitiful. There was one in Sulby, Monday lunchtime, 2 officers out playing laser tag on the Sulby straight, must've been at least three or four cars per hour, at that time of day. When was the last time you saw a crap driving trap? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CableGuy Posted April 5, 2006 Share Posted April 5, 2006 Cableguy, can you explain why you do not count any of the votes from off Island people? These people who visit our fair Isle are many peoples bread and butter. Yes, I am talking about the TT but I am also talking about lots of different visits by various car clubs throughout the year. I don't see why these people who have taken the time to sign up on the site do not get counted? Its a joke and manipulation of figures of which the DOT are very good with. Lets see if ths comes in. If it does then I know who I will vote for in November. The reason why I don't include their votes is that they are not island residents who use the roads on a regular basis - whilst I appreciate that the TT visitors / car clubs have their opinions and have taken their time to sign up, I wouldn't expect to be able to vote on a speed limit on a road in Cheshire for example if I only visited the place 2 or 3 times a year. However, this is not the specific argument I am making, what I am saying in my previous post is that people are claiming that this has all been done 18 months ago and that people didn't want a speed limit then. But the fact of the matter is that this wasn't done 18 months ago in the same manner - back then people wrote letters if they wanted to and voted on the nolimit website if they didn't want a limit. This time a leaflet is being sent to every home on the island, so it is totally different to 18 months ago. This time everyone has a quick and easy way to respond as stated in my earlier post, as some people may not have internet access and others may not be willing to write letters to the DOT. If the limit comes in then feel free to vote for whoever you wish in the elections, but I know other people in favour of the limit who would cast their vote differently to your own. Everyone has their own opinion which they are entitled to, I am simply making the case that this consultation is totally different to 18 months aqo. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ripsaw Posted April 5, 2006 Share Posted April 5, 2006 When the wannabes come canvassing for our votes in the lead up to November, what is the most important quality? a) That they used to own your local shop 20 years ago, b) That they have a idea of what is best for the Island and they will do all in their power to establish factual evidence in order carry their job to the best of their ability, c) That they promise to spend years and taxpayers money going round in circles on life saving matters then still come running back to each one of us to ask our permission to legislate without a care for how many lives are still at risk while they fanny dither around. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hboy Posted April 5, 2006 Share Posted April 5, 2006 There was one in Sulby, Monday lunchtime, 2 officers out playing laser tag on the Sulby straight, must've been at least three or four cars per hour, at that time of day. When was the last time you saw a crap driving trap? That is the point. Mid morning on the Sulby straight; its as if they do it deliberately to make sure they are less likely to book people. As for crap driving tests. They used to do them. They were called "traffic patrols" which involved the Police driving around when 1) They were not racing to accidents and 2) They were not going out for chips. Now they don't seem to do much patrolling and certainly not at peak times when most of the bad driving happens. Instead we have a few cardboard cut-out Policemen stuffed in hedges and speed guns at non peak times. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BlackCat Posted April 5, 2006 Share Posted April 5, 2006 I've just seen one of the "1 chance to put things right" banners. How come I (as a taxpayer) am paying for this? I wouldn't mind at all if I were seeing banners putting the other side of the argument forward also. I wonder what distortions of the statistics and facts we will get in the questionnare when it comes? For lots of people, this will be the only view they see, so it is only right that is is balanced, but I suspect it will be packed with emotive language, selective statistics and partial truths. For this to be a truly fair everyone needs to see both sides. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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