manxchatterbox Posted April 6, 2006 Share Posted April 6, 2006 will the DoT allow banners to be put up with a contrary view ??? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tempus Fugit Posted April 6, 2006 Share Posted April 6, 2006 Just been looking on the gov website, and found this bit to be very confusing, I hope it's not an indication of the standard of the text in the consultation document we are about to receive ! Many people have strong opinions both for and about the suggestion of a 60 miles per hour speed limit on the Island. However, recently released figures clearly show that speed is the major contributor to accidents on the Isle of Man, so the Department thought it an appropriate time to assess public opinion on this emotive subject. Between 1 January 2003 and 31 December 2005, there were 33 fatal and 210 serious road traffic collisions on the Island’s road network. 39 people were killed and 233 were seriously injured. 30 of the 39 (77%) who lost their lives and 116 of the 233 (50%) who sustained serious injury, did so on roads with no speed limits. 17 of the worst accident hotspots are on roads with no speed limit. The Snaefell Mountain Road accounts for 12 of our 30 worst locations and over 40% of the total number of accidents, of which between 60% and 90% are speed-related. time to go back to plain english lessons ? So, if all the roads have speed limits, then 100% of the deaths and injuries will be on speed limited roads, an increase of 30% and 50% over the previous ..... you can prove anything with statistics ! (who said "lies, damned lies and statistics") Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Albert Tatlock Posted April 7, 2006 Share Posted April 7, 2006 Just been looking on the gov website, and found this bit to be very confusing, I hope it's not an indication of the standard of the text in the consultation document we are about to receive ! Many people have strong opinions both for and about the suggestion of a 60 miles per hour speed limit on the Island. However, recently released figures clearly show that speed is the major contributor to accidents on the Isle of Man, so the Department thought it an appropriate time to assess public opinion on this emotive subject. Between 1 January 2003 and 31 December 2005, there were 33 fatal and 210 serious road traffic collisions on the Island’s road network. 39 people were killed and 233 were seriously injured. 30 of the 39 (77%) who lost their lives and 116 of the 233 (50%) who sustained serious injury, did so on roads with no speed limits. 17 of the worst accident hotspots are on roads with no speed limit. The Snaefell Mountain Road accounts for 12 of our 30 worst locations and over 40% of the total number of accidents, of which between 60% and 90% are speed-related. time to go back to plain english lessons ? So, if all the roads have speed limits, then 100% of the deaths and injuries will be on speed limited roads, an increase of 30% and 50% over the previous ..... you can prove anything with statistics ! (who said "lies, damned lies and statistics") I think the real danger of statistics is their misuse, especially when applied without thought in a democracy, where the deeds of the few should not dictate the rights and wishes of the many. Figures often beguile me, particularly when I have the arranging of them myself; in which case the remark attributed to Disraeli would often apply with justice and force: "There are three kinds of lies: lies, damned lies and statistics." - Mark Twain (Autobiography) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Amadeus Posted April 7, 2006 Author Share Posted April 7, 2006 This really is mind control - they're spending OUR money telling us how to think. What about the FOUR (count 'em) quarter page propaganda ads in the Courier this week. Who is the guy? Was speed to blame for his loss - or an uninsured, unlicenced driver, a defective vehicle, or (more likely) a UK cop 'doing high speed training'? [/rant] I agree - liked the first three adverts, until I saw the fourth bit - pretty cheap attempt to push the whole thing towards the desired result. Even the article on the Dot website is pushing in the same direction: It has been suggested by some people that introducing a speed limit on the Island would not work, however lowering vehicle speed is proven to reduce severity of road traffic collisions. A national speed limit would be a key part of the Island’s comprehensive road safety initiative – including education, better signs, better roads (for example anti-skid road surfacing, cat’s eyes) and other safety measures. Unbiased? My .... I wonder how many advanced driving courses they could have subsidized with the money spent on this... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
slinkydevil Posted April 7, 2006 Share Posted April 7, 2006 will the DoT allow banners to be put up with a contrary view ??? Someone must have some wallpaper paste for a bit of fly-posting? B) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wideload Posted April 7, 2006 Share Posted April 7, 2006 Does anyone know where i could get the details of the accidents stated in the adverts? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Albert Tatlock Posted April 7, 2006 Share Posted April 7, 2006 Does anyone know where i could get the details of the accidents stated in the adverts? Though I believe you will not find these things online - I believe the public records office is a good place to start http://www.gov.im/registries/publicrecords/records.xml or at least they are likely to have someone point you in the right direction. (P.S. if you need a hand with any analysis PM me) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hboy Posted April 7, 2006 Share Posted April 7, 2006 Many people have strong opinions both for and about the suggestion of a 60 miles per hour speed limit on the Island. However, recently released figures clearly show that speed is the major contributor to accidents on the Isle of Man, so the Department thought it an appropriate time to assess public opinion on this emotive subject. Between 1 January 2003 and 31 December 2005, there were 33 fatal and 210 serious road traffic collisions on the Island’s road network. 39 people were killed and 233 were seriously injured. 30 of the 39 (77%) who lost their lives and 116 of the 233 (50%) who sustained serious injury, did so on roads with no speed limits. 17 of the worst accident hotspots are on roads with no speed limit. The Snaefell Mountain Road accounts for 12 of our 30 worst locations and over 40% of the total number of accidents, of which between 60% and 90% are speed-related. What it is basically saying is that most of the fatal accidents that happened happened outside of built up areas, well duh! Tell me something I don't know. Its bloody obvious because as soon as you get outside of a town your invariably in an unrestricted zone, so what has this got to do with anything. It does not say whether these people were in fact speeding - just that the accidents occurred outside of a 30mph restriction. So what. Also does anyone know - is TT fortnight discounted from these figures because to me the TT festival skews all these statistics (particularly the fatality toll on the Mountain) and should be factored out as a good proportion of the accidents over that period wouldn't happen if the TT festival was not on. I suggest that if they want to be extra safe, bring in an all Island 30mph limit and ban the TT if they really want to get the stats down rather than publishing this misleading information. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Utah 01 Posted April 7, 2006 Share Posted April 7, 2006 There were two excellent letters in the latest edition of the Manx Independent. All Braidwood needs to do is read them, inwardly digest and save the tax payer the cost of this futile consultation. As for the adverts which have appeared in various publications, they are a disgrace and should be withdrawn if the 'referendum' hopes to claim any degree of balance. Has anybody (with any clout) challenged the overt bias in favour of a limit which has been blatently displayed in these adverts? Grrrrr...... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lonan3 Posted April 9, 2006 Share Posted April 9, 2006 Until recently, I was very much in favour of the introduction of a national speed limit. In fact, I still believe that it is one of the steps necessary to reduce serious accidents on the island. The campaign that has been launched by the DoT, however, so disgusts me that I am going to vote NO when the consultation document arrives. This kind of propaganda insults the intelligence - we've already experienced it from Josef Goebbels and been warned about it by George Orwell. Our money is being spent on a campaign to persuade us that a particular course of action is for our benefit. By the way, it's all too easy to put the blame for this on Phil Braidwood. This campaign must have had the approval/backing of the Council of Ministers, therefore they are all collectively responsible for it. Also, if the former DoT minister (a regular visitor to this forum) had done more to initiate some of the many excellent ideas arising from the previous consultation on road safety, it might not have been necessary to rush into a debate about introducing speed limits. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hboy Posted April 9, 2006 Share Posted April 9, 2006 Until recently, I was very much in favour of the introduction of a national speed limit. In fact, I still believe that it is one of the steps necessary to reduce serious accidents on the island.The campaign that has been launched by the DoT, however, so disgusts me that I am going to vote NO when the consultation document arrives. This kind of propaganda insults the intelligence - we've already experienced it from Josef Goebbels and been warned about it by George Orwell. Our money is being spent on a campaign to persuade us that a particular course of action is for our benefit. By the way, it's all too easy to put the blame for this on Phil Braidwood. This campaign must have had the approval/backing of the Council of Ministers, therefore they are all collectively responsible for it. Also, if the former DoT minister (a regular visitor to this forum) had done more to initiate some of the many excellent ideas arising from the previous consultation on road safety, it might not have been necessary to rush into a debate about introducing speed limits. Not sure you can blame the former DOT minister too much. At least he had the integrity to put the issue out to no strings attached consultation rather than this farce where they pretend to consult whilst spending thousands on adverts to sway the vote. As you say all it takes is intelligent policing to solve the problem. Personally I would like too see how the TT Fortnight stacks up in the stats provided. There are on average about 4 road fatalities each year during this period (sometimes more) largely caused by bikes or increased speed and traffic because of bikes and if they are really anxious to cut road deaths then they should cancel the TT rather than bring in the all Island limit as it would guarantee to save the lives of 4 - 5 people a year which is probably more than an all Island limit will do. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Juan Kerr Posted April 9, 2006 Share Posted April 9, 2006 Make no mistake, the 60 limit is coming, and there isn't anything we can do about it. How Orwellian that we'll be told later that it was what we wanted all along anyway... We are an Island that virtually created road racing, is home to god knows how many professional bike racers, gave rise to two British rally champions, and has many others including Alex Lloyd flying the flag on a global stage, yet we can't be trusted to go over 60mph in our own cars. Good job we got the gold medal in cycling. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lonan3 Posted April 10, 2006 Share Posted April 10, 2006 This kind of propaganda insults the intelligence - we've already experienced it from Josef Goebbels and been warned about it by George Orwell.Our money is being spent on a campaign to persuade us that a particular course of action is for our benefit. By the way, it's all too easy to put the blame for this on Phil Braidwood. This campaign must have had the approval/backing of the Council of Ministers, therefore they are all collectively responsible for it. Ooops! After listening to the Chief Minister on Mandate this morning, it looks as if I've got a few words to eat! According to him, he didn't know about the propaganda campaign until it was pointed out to him, which suggests that it's solely the responsibility of the department. He also emphasised that he thinks speed is one factor in road safety rather than a cure-all and suggested that driving standards need to be addressed as a major contributor to accidents. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rallybug Posted April 10, 2006 Share Posted April 10, 2006 I still think everyone should be re-tested every ten years when their photo licence is up for renewal - alright, we will need more examiners, but it might just get some bad drivers off the street. Along with that, traffic police out on the roads, both marked and unmarked wouldn't go amiss. Like many hear, I feel degraded by the misuse of statistics to show only the DoT's point of view, and even though I may not drive much above 70mph on any currently derestricted road doesn't mean that I won't vote NO to this request, to show my displeasure with their blatant bending of figures. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Juan Kerr Posted April 11, 2006 Share Posted April 11, 2006 I feel degraded by the misuse of statistics to show only the DoT's point of view, and even though I may not drive much above 70mph on any currently derestricted road doesn't mean that I won't vote NO to this request, to show my displeasure with their blatant bending of figures. Its the misuse of the Islands image as well. The Mountain Road is shut today so that the Discovery Channel can film scenes of "unlimited speed" (whatever that is) across the Veranda. Lets hope that the film does not bring a load of disappointed speed freaks to the Island who saw the program and thought they could come here for a quick blast only to be confronted by ridiculous signs and a 60mph limit. You can't do this sort of publicity on one hand, whilst secretly doing the opposite behind closed doors. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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