Positive Action Group

[Amadeus]

Just wondering if anyone went to the meeting last night, or to any of the ones before?

 

If so, what's the opinion until now? Seems, a few regulars are emerging, surrounded by plenty of political talk...

[teapot]

One thing that was very noticable - the average ages at all the meetings must have been 60/65 - so no interest from young people. Agree with Charles, there does need to be change but I don't think this group is going to fire the imaginations of anyone outside the group, it's a shame but unless they become less bland the majority of people (who, let's be honest, aren't interested in politics) will not be interested. Sorry.

[Amadeus]

One thing that was very noticable - the average ages at all the meetings must have been 60/65 - so no interest from young people. Agree with Charles, there does need to be change but I don't think this group is going to fire the imaginations of anyone outside the group, it's a shame but unless they become less bland the majority of people (who, let's be honest, aren't interested in politics) will not be interested. Sorry.

Noticed that as well - I think I must have been the youngest there by quite some years...

 

I was thinking of getting some friends to come along - all in their twenties as well - but I doubt they would have found it very interesting. Some of the debate was too detailed, with specific ideas here and there - all a bit dry at times. If their main plan is to get people interested in politics (and with "people" I mean new faces, who maybe have not thought a lot about politics in the past), then it would need a fresher look and feel to it.

 

Still, it's a start and any developments should be observed with interest...

[splink]

Some good posts there. I think teapot has this group pretty well sussed out. There are other people involved with this group, lurking in the background, who have yet to emerge I believe.

 

One point, and I don't mean to be offensive but

The Manx people are canny

No they are not, not at all. Especially when it comes to Politics. See current Tynwald for details.

 

But if the whole thing gets people politically motivated then good but I certainly wouldn't let this group if they were a political party get anywhere near power.

[teapot]

Some good posts there. I think teapot has this group pretty well sussed out. There are other people involved with this group, lurking in the background, who have yet to emerge I believe.

 

One point, and I don't mean to be offensive but

The Manx people are canny

No they are not, not at all. Especially when it comes to Politics. See current Tynwald for details.

 

But if the whole thing gets people politically motivated then good but I certainly wouldn't let this group if they were a political party get anywhere near power.

Agree.[

 

Don't be mislead - the Manx will suss this lot out pretty quickly - the problem is there aren't enough of them now to make a difference!!

[Albert Tatlock]

I would suspect that this approach is a good way to form a party, by avoiding saying on which major UK party your ideas are based and getting a few members, - before any major party/organisation/group can have a pop at you.

 

Problem is, if everyone at the meeting has different views all you will end up with is the 'Mannin Line Roadshow' - and as mentioned - existing MHKs saying 'Of course! We agree and stand by those principles too etc."

 

...never trust a politician! (or a smiling cat!)

[Charles Flynn]

Splink,

 

OK I grant you the point about the current Tynwald but I still believe the Manx people are canny. They will suss out those with hidden agendas and once word gets around that's the end of a candidates chances.

 

Those who stand who talk about business, money, power changes will not go down too well with the majority of the electorate. Those standing on single issues connected with commercialism will need to explain themselves.

 

If there is any doubt the people will go with those with whom they are familiar with so new people coming forward, particularly those attached to a group have a big hurdle to get over for election.

 

All this of course is in IMHO!

[Charles Flynn]

Another point and a major one of course is what should they do next to broaden their appeal and get some reform policies adopted?

 

Should they have further meetings, more "any questions" with speakers such as say Bernie Moffatt or others some of you may like to hear? What do they do about image and attracting younger people?

Pehaps they are alright as they are with veterans, silver haired pensioners, business people? Is that what the Island wants? What sort of candidates should they support and how should they support them - money, resources, ideas? Are candidates well advised when they join a political group?

[Albert Tatlock]

Another point and a major one of course is what should they do next to broaden their appeal and get some reform policies adopted?

I think, first of all, these guys need to come clean. Are they a political party or a lobby group? We need a statement of their major aims and objectives – otherwise they are just a talking shop – just like any other workplace, pub or social club.

 

Reform groups (like the Tory Reform Group in the UK – an official organisation - tend to have specific aims and objectives) i.e. in order to ‘re-form’ things you need to know what is ‘wrong’ and what exactly you intend to do to ‘re-form’ it to what you think is ‘right’. (I’m not implying that they are ex-Tories by the way - yet).

 

Political parties and reform groups tend to group policies so that they do not counteract each other – thus providing a consistent approach which defines direction. That is a major advantage of having a label - otherwise you could describe every political party, not in power in the UK, as a ‘reform group’. Again, a major reason for detailing their 'agreed' aims and objectives.

 

Personally, I would broadly support the emergence of more political parties on the island. Lobby groups have no power, nor potential power, only influence at certain times. Many people say not having political parties is an advantage for the Isle of Man, but, IMHO, surely a major problem is that we have such a disparate group of MHKs that collectively do not represent any particular group and therefore do not have any collective manifesto and little collective direction. Surely, this is a recipe for allowing civil servants, consultants, and every half-witted lobby group on the island to dictate policy (or encourage MHKs to stick together like a herd of sheep to adopt UK policy).

 

However, without knowing exactly what this group stands for, I believe that you’ll get every possible answer you want, and more, with such an open question.

[Virginia P]

Look at our higher benefits all round , student grants etc/ Public ownership of most of the important things, water, electricity, education, transport etc

 

This government is by any definition very left wing and has been for years compared to across.

 

Beware right wing politics sneaking in - they are on their way. Resist!

[Albert Tatlock]

Look at our higher benefits all round , student grants etc/ Public ownership of most of the important things, water, electricity, education, transport etc

 

This government is by any definition very left wing and has been for years compared to across.

 

Beware right wing politics sneaking in - they are on their way. Resist!

hmmmmm...except perhaps for:

 

- The willingness to bring in ID cards (if the UK adopts)

- Sentencing trends

- A raft of American Bush driven anti civil liberties legislation

- General eagerness to become a county of England

- Strangling the finance sector

 

Blimey! - I'd hate to see the far left get in.

[manxchatterbox]

Beware Socially responsible right wing politics sneaking in - they are on their way. Resist!and IMO will be well supported!

[Declan]

How's your political party coming along MCB?

[LoneWolf]

Socially responsible right wing politics

 

oxymoron ?

[teapot]

Another point and a major one of course is what should they do next to broaden their appeal and get some reform policies adopted?

I think, first of all, these guys need to come clean. Are they a political party or a lobby group? We need a statement of their major aims and objectives – otherwise they are just a talking shop – just like any other workplace, pub or social club.

 

Reform groups (like the Tory Reform Group in the UK – an official organisation - tend to have specific aims and objectives) i.e. in order to ‘re-form’ things you need to know what is ‘wrong’ and what exactly you intend to do to ‘re-form’ it to what you think is ‘right’. (I’m not implying that they are ex-Tories by the way - yet).

 

Political parties and reform groups tend to group policies so that they do not counteract each other – thus providing a consistent approach which defines direction. That is a major advantage of having a label - otherwise you could describe every political party, not in power in the UK, as a ‘reform group’. Again, a major reason for detailing their 'agreed' aims and objectives.

 

Personally, I would broadly support the emergence of more political parties on the island. Lobby groups have no power, nor potential power, only influence at certain times. Many people say not having political parties is an advantage for the Isle of Man, but, IMHO, surely a major problem is that we have such a disparate group of MHKs that collectively do not represent any particular group and therefore do not have any collective manifesto and little collective direction. Surely, this is a recipe for allowing civil servants, consultants, and every half-witted lobby group on the island to dictate policy (or encourage MHKs to stick together like a herd of sheep to adopt UK policy).

 

However, without knowing exactly what this group stands for, I believe that you’ll get every possible answer you want, and more, with such an open question.

 

They say they are a lobby group wanting to change (reform) Tynwald. Well that's what I understood from the meetings. But they are pushing for one to join the group, by way of giving them your name and address and there by signing up to their ideals. But I don't know what their ideals are. They have the three core principles, as I said before, but then they say they are going to add more principles, in which case I wouldn't sign to them until they've stated all their principles. Also, at the last meeting Charles asked if every member on the panel/committee would stand up and give the meeting a run down of who they were, what they had done and what they stood for. It was put to a vote as to whether the people in the room wanted them to do that. The majority didn't want them to go into this and would prefer to continue with the questions. So the vote was taken and Charles proposition was overruled, then the Chairman took it upon himself to tell the assembled people his history and then went through the panel and asked every member to state their history. Well is this democracy? and if they can take no notice of the peoples vote and just go their own way on this minor item then could they do this on more important issues? Not a good start - mind you, they'd fit right in to Tynwald because they do that all the time!

I agree with Albert - I support the emergence of parties but this group is a bit of a worry.