Politician Posted April 7, 2006 Share Posted April 7, 2006 I'll tell you "why?" because the people that have come in from England haven't integrated and absorbed the Manx way of life but, as with most places that they colonise, they've overrun the place and installed their way of life. In what ways has the island become more English in recent years? I'm a recent comeover myself, but would hate the island to become a mere outpost of England - if I'd wanted to live in England or a country that felt like England, then I would have stayed there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
manxchatterbox Posted April 7, 2006 Share Posted April 7, 2006 If as LW says:-"There are little, if any economic gains to be had given the exisiting system of subsidising house owners" then why not just do away with social housing...I take it from how LW responds that he is a beneficiary of social housing policies...if I'm wrong then please correct me... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nipper Posted April 7, 2006 Share Posted April 7, 2006 So . . . . apart from boosting their own rather flagging egos What are PAG trying to do? Who are they looking to attract support from? There is a large influx of people to the IoM over the past decade (just take a look at the housing that's gone on) There is a large influx of money ......................ditto .................(just take a look at . . .etc. ) The Isle of Man is the Isle of Man. We don't like change, especially when it is change to ££££benefit you lot and the nouveaux - although we have just about lost that battle. I doubt the IoM folk will make it any easier by getting into the political bed with PAG. But mebe I is wrong. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LoneWolf Posted April 7, 2006 Share Posted April 7, 2006 If as LW says:-"There are little, if any economic gains to be had given the exisiting system of subsidising house owners" then why not just do away with social housing...I take it from how LW responds that he is a beneficiary of social housing policies...if I'm wrong then please correct me... MCB. I take it, from the numerous ridiculous and ill considered posts you have made that you are a beneficiary of mental health service policies. If I am wrong please correct me. Right or wrong I am certain you have never benefitted from the IOM Government's education policies. To deal with your last post ... Im afraid you are wrong again. Has you read my reply properly you would have noticed I began by saying I have benefitted from mortgage tax relief and various grants for improvements. Not that it is any of your business. It really does seem to me that people, such as yourself, might do rather well if they checked out some facts before spouting about areas of Government policy such as housing. You have made one ludicrous and potentially divisive suggestion. You have now aggravated that with another ludicrous suggestion that social housing should be "done away with". To help you along the way I would suggest you investigate how public sector housing is funded or to be more accurate how the shortfall is funded. If you manage to understand the funding arrangement you will, doubtless, wonder how any of your suggestions could possibly make any impact at all on what you wrongly perceive as a social problem. There has never been any place on this island for the politics of the rabid right. For the avoidance of doubt, a proposal to means test a sizeable proportion of the population [over 20%], to issue eviction orders to those whom, in your opinion, are not poor enough is an unacceptable proposal which Atilla the Hun would have shied away from. There has never been and hopefully never will be a place for totally uniformed bigotry and prejudice to become Government policy. Your thoughts on this matter, as well as on numerous others, are uninformed bigoted and socially divisive. Think about it and if the cap fits wear it. God forbid anyone such as yourself becomes a MHK. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LoneWolf Posted April 7, 2006 Share Posted April 7, 2006 Anyone can talk about single issues - but the real added value is when the impact of all such single issues are considered as a whole i.e. policy. Well said Albert Never in my life did I think the island would be so similar to England as it has become. Surely, the first question to ask is why? I agree and ask myself the same question. I dont have the answer but I really do believe the balance of the population is wrong. There are far too many recent arrivals who have brought their own ideas and culture with them. Manx values and ideas of decency seem to have been buried somewhere along the way, the dominant culture is no longer a Celtic one and I am very much afraid we are rapidly becoming little more than an annexe to the greater English area. Even worst, hardly anyone seems to care. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hugh Jampton Posted April 7, 2006 Share Posted April 7, 2006 If only Manxchatterbox and Lone Wolf had their own Current affairs programme on Manx Radio, it would draw the crowds back. They remind me a bit of Pete and Dud. Keep it up! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Declan Posted April 7, 2006 Share Posted April 7, 2006 If as LW says:-"There are little, if any economic gains to be had given the exisiting system of subsidising house owners" then why not just do away with social housing...I take it from how LW responds that he is a beneficiary of social housing policies...if I'm wrong then please correct me... MCB this post illustrates why I could never vote for you, no matter what your policies are. If you can't read Lonewolf's 6 line post without coming away with a basic error of fact, what hope are you going to have if Peter Karren ever asks you a question? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
simon Posted April 7, 2006 Share Posted April 7, 2006 LoneWolf and Teapot: I mostly agree with what both of you have said in different ways about this group and it's non defined aims. I disagree with Lone Wolf in so much (only) as I believe that notions of 'Celtic-ness' are specifically a 19th century (mostly British) construct. There was never a Celtic - ness. The very notion is a construct which has then been claimed by different groups. But it has little more legitimate history than the notion of druids - of whom no history is actually known. The notion of Celtic - ness can be traced exactly to the sort of poetic thinking which resulted in the revival of Morris Dancing - and more recently, horse brasses, Toby Jugs, real ale and finger - in - the - ear folk music in England. The gaelic / celtic revival (typically, for example, in Ireland) was a dreamy but largely bogus poetic and landed class construction - a reaction against industrialism which was later used in an attempt to impose a bogus notion of cultural and social purity. As if things would be better if we all went back to believing in the little folk - which many people never did. Ditto Teapot's allusions to a notion of a specifically or single Manx - way - of - Life. Even 500 years ago many different Manx people had many different ways of life. Manx people never had a single way - of - life. Many of them were internationalists who went out into the world and did great things. It's only ever about economics and basic beliefs about right and wrong. Claiming that a particular culture has been diluted or destroyed by the natural flux and influx is a dangerous route. People could end up sounding exactly like the sort of little - Englanders who think that British culture has been destroyed by recent immigration. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LoneWolf Posted April 7, 2006 Share Posted April 7, 2006 It's only ever about economics and basic beliefs about right and wrong. Claiming that a particular culture has been diluted or destroyed by the natural flux and influx is a dangerous route. People could end up sounding exactly like the sort of little - Englanders who think that British culture has been destroyed by recent immigration. Point taken, understood and accepted Simon. Maybe I should really be bemoaning the import of the English class system. That has never been a feature of Island life during my lifetime but my word, we have it now. The objectionable posts made by MCB, in this thread, are an example .. and thats where I started from. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Albert Tatlock Posted April 8, 2006 Share Posted April 8, 2006 Ditto Teapot's allusions to a notion of a specifically or single Manx - way - of - Life. Even 500 years ago many different Manx people had many different ways of life. Manx people never had a single way - of - life. Many of them were internationalists who went out into the world and did great things. It's only ever about economics and basic beliefs about right and wrong. Claiming that a particular culture has been diluted or destroyed by the natural flux and influx is a dangerous route. People could end up sounding exactly like the sort of little - Englanders who think that British culture has been destroyed by recent immigration. Change is always inevitable, and without change especially during the past thirty years, the island would have suffered in many ways. When the island decided to go down the route of international finance, it did so in the knowledge that this would open itself to the world and every creed etc. This debate is not about race, it is really about control and influence. Although change can be a good thing, the rate of change is an important factor. I worry about the relatively recent trend for the wholesale and relatively unquestioned adoption of UK policies and laws. Moreover, if you examine (for the Isle of Man) the number of Acts/Ammendments passed between the 1960's and 1990s, and then look at the number of Acts/Ammendments passed during the last five years the recent rate of change is astonishing. This is particularly worrying when many of the consequences of this adopted legislation has not been thought through properly within the UK - some of which could even be described as 'panic driven' legislation. IMHO this panic legislation has had a major impact on the finance sector here, where external agendas are also being deployed. The islands 'independence' in making its own decisions has always been important to its people. One measure of change is the amount of external control and influence that can be exerted on the island, and who has that external control and influence. This control and influence has radically shifted during the past 5 years, predominately through the introduction of new Acts. The island used to be 'different' because it was not quick to absorb such changes - the island took time, whatever the reasons, to study the consequences eleswhere. That's why we don't have tower blocks that need to be demolished, why crime is 'relatively' low, and why drugs have only in the past ten years become a problem here. The problem is, that if we align the laws of the island to those of England and then Europe, we remove our uniqueness. The more we do so, the more we become just another English county, free to absorb the same problems and people. For example, I fear that it is only a matter of time until someone from England, or elsewhere, challenges the work permit scheme, or prohibits the TT, with our own relatively new legislation and precedents used to tie our own hands. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LoneWolf Posted April 9, 2006 Share Posted April 9, 2006 Change is always inevitable, and without change especially during the past thirty years, the island would have suffered in many ways. When the island decided to go down the route of international finance, it did so in the knowledge that this would open itself to the world and every creed etc. This debate is not about race, it is really about control and influence. Change is inevitable yes. What concerns me and others of my acquaintance is the road which change is driving us along. Its nothing to do with race. Its about the Island becoming a nation which is only unified by money or an interest in money. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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