Manx Radio

[The Dog's Dangly Bits]

5 minutes ago, HeliX said:

Anecdotal evidence doesn't carry as much value as studies because it has considerably more bias and less control.

And a study of 325 is worth jack shit.  Anecdotally I've engaged with far more people.  None of them are racist. 

It's very small percentages.  You know it too.

[HeliX]

2 minutes ago, The Dog's Dangly Bits said:

And a study of 325 is worth jack shit.  Anecdotally I've engaged with far more people.  None of them are racist. 

It's very small percentages.  You know it too.

The numbers are congruent with other studies in similar countries. https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/home-news/british-people-admit-racially-prejudiced-white-black-asian-muslims-brexit-more-leave-voters-remain-a7973751.html

 

Whether anecdotes are more valuable than studies isn't up for debate.

[TheTeapot]

3 minutes ago, The Dog's Dangly Bits said:

And a study of 325 is worth jack shit.  Anecdotally I've engaged with far more people.  None of them are racist. 

It's very small percentages.  You know it too.

There are loads of racist people here. To say there aren't is naive at best.

[Mr Woo]

Here's a point of view from an American publication concerning the Stu Peters debacle.

https://www.theamericanconservative.com/dreher/alasdair-macintyre-stu-peters-emotivism-isle-of-man/

[pongo]

5 minutes ago, Mr Woo said:

Here's a point of view from an American publication concerning the Stu Peters debacle.

https://www.theamericanconservative.com/dreher/alasdair-macintyre-stu-peters-emotivism-isle-of-man/

It's not really helping when the likes of Katie Hopkins, Spiked Online (aka the former Revolutionary Communist Party) or Rod Dreher get themselves involved.

[HeliX]

1 minute ago, pongo said:

It's not really helping when the likes of Katie Hopkins, Spiked Online (aka the former Revolutionary Communist Party) or Rod Dreher get themselves involved.

It is giving me sympathy for Stu though. Not over the show, but over the horrible individuals who are co-opting this.

[pongo]

2 minutes ago, HeliX said:

It is giving me sympathy for Stu though. Not over the show, but over the horrible individuals who are co-opting this.

Yep.

Be good if everyone involved could roll back a bit before the crazies get involved. 

Positive outcome would be a handshake and everyone moves on. Lessons learned etc.

Edited June 7, 2020 by pongo

[quilp]

9 minutes ago, pongo said:

It's not really helping when the likes of Katie Hopkins, Spiked Online (aka the former Revolutionary Communist Party) or Rod Dreher get themselves involved.

Admit it, you didn't read it. 

[TheTeapot]

Hi @quilp nice to see you

[Shake me up Judy]

Hurrah ! Fill yer boots Quilpy old son...

[Max Power]

11 hours ago, Max Power said:

Good answer but I was thinking more of times that I was in Washington and in The Gambia, it would be my defining feature. I do take your point though but I don't think there's any intentional slight by describing someone as black. It actually makes me concerned that the situation may never be totally acceptable and that there will always be 'slip ups' or unintentional slights and mainly due to the fact that there are so few black people for the population to become totally 'au fait' with things?  . 

Do you really find that people on the island don't integrate? I find that disappointing, I really do. 

 

11 hours ago, peter pan said:

In honesty, I can't speak for how the situation will be 5, 10 or 15 years down the line.  What matters is the situation right now, and the fact is that right now, racism against non-white people still exists in almost all countries in the Western world, and in great volumes.  So, personally, I see this as an opportunity for people who aren't educated in racism to take the time to listen to those who have faced it instead of calling them snowflakes or an outrage mob as a means of deflection.  This will have one outcome: it will open a dialogue.  By having that dialogue there, both sides can better understand one another and can work together to make smaller, better changes towards progressing further into the modern world.  

 

As I said at the start, I can't speak for what the situation will be in the future but, for now, if a black person says that they would rather not be referred to as "the black one" (or, in Stu's friend's case, the "blacker than black" one), it's probably best to listen that from the context of a non-white person in 2020 as opposed to from the context of a white person who grew up in the 70s.  

 

And, addressing your last point, I have found that to generally be true.  There are obviously exceptions and I think that is changing now, but my experience has been less than pleasant.  That said, it's been wonderful to finally have an honest/open discussion with some of the MF folk, hopefully I've shed some light on why I think Stu was out of order, and why I think the arguments against BLM (that it's irrelevant to the IOM) don't have much legs.  Will definitely pop in at some other point in time. 

Of course one barrier to integration would be that people on either side say 'why bother with all of that', the danger of saying the wrong thing at the wrong time is pretty daunting to most folk. Why risk being called a racist by getting involved with black people? This is also one barrier to employment, far from increased protection, legislation increases the chances of difficulties in the workplace. This, particularly should the situation arise where a black employee needs admonishing. I have experienced this myself with an Indian lady I employed. She was a bit slow and slap dash on a particular task, I merely asked her what the problem was as things were not progressing. Five minutes later she was in my office telling me that I was picking on her because of her colour? You can imagine how that would make you feel when given the choice of two employees the next time you are hiring. I did employ people of other races following this but it was always on my mind that should another employee do or say something racist, or the person want's to claim that they did, it would create a huge backlash against the business should it get out of hand. A bit like the Manx Radio issue in some ways.

On a separate point, one thing which I noticed in the Trevor Phillips documentary was, ihow he described the areas which the different races settled in. They wanted to live in areas where other people from their area of their country settled. I think this is probably normal behaviour when you look at the USA for example, huge areas were settled by people from a particular country. We seem to feel that having areas where Asians, Blacks etc is that they have been herded into ghettos and they don't want to integrate, They try to live their lives separately in these areas? I don't know, I think in some ways the USA works better than the UK as people who move there want to be Amarican, whereas it appears that some people who move here don't tend to want to be British?  

We have had a similar situation in the UK for decades in Northern Ireland where Catholics were in a similar position to Black people today. The colour wasn't the issue, it was their religion and Irish heritage against the supremacy of the Scots/English Protestants. Look how that manifested itself and what happened. 

I don't think there are any easy answers, what ever is done sometimes has consequences which cancel out the good intentions. 

[pongo]

4 minutes ago, quilp said:

Admit it, you didn't read it. 

Of course I read it.

This whole thing is stupid and should be de-escalated before any more nutjobs try to use it as a vehicle for their personal agendas.

Find a good moderator and get them all around a table to try to understand each other better. It doesn't deserve to be world news.

[Declan]

The trouble with White Privilege as a term is the absence of discrimination is not privilege it’s a right. Although it is amusing that it triggers offence in people who moan about “offence culture” and “snowflakes”.

It does raise a valuable way of considering the world though. Step aside from race and consider gender. I certainly have more freedom to travel independently and walk U.K. city streets at night than I would if I was a woman. I hadn’t really considered that as an advantage I had before people talked about Male Privilege, so it helps frame the problem in my mind. I just wish there was a better term. 

[pongo]

And then drop the old phone-in format for good.

[Shake me up Judy]

Why ? What a stupid thing to say.