pongo Posted June 13, 2020 Share Posted June 13, 2020 25 minutes ago, quilp said: Listen here, Mr cancel-culture-haughty-pants, whether statue or monument, they're erected to symbolise, embody sentiment, a statement of historical fame or as a critique of infamy thus should not to be forgotten- "lest we forget" an'that... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gladys Posted June 13, 2020 Share Posted June 13, 2020 1 hour ago, pongo said: There is a false equivalence implict in this cartoon. Since Rodin's The Thinker is a sculpture, a piece of art. It's not a monument (to dead slave trader). A monument serves a very different cultural function. The few surviving statues of Stalin are now in museums. Where they belong. Not true, it is symbolic of the destruction of rational thought. I get the symbolism entirely and it is not a false equivalence. 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pongo Posted June 13, 2020 Share Posted June 13, 2020 2 minutes ago, Gladys said: Not true, it is symbolic of the destruction of rational thought. I get the symbolism entirely and it is not a false equivalence. That's a sensible and feasible parallel interpretation of what that cartoon can mean. You make a good point. But it will also be read to mean that a monument to an imperialist, or a slaver (or a dictator) exists in the same context as a piece of art. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gladys Posted June 13, 2020 Share Posted June 13, 2020 Not sure that is the intention or the interpretation I get. But, hey, we have a different opinion. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pongo Posted June 13, 2020 Share Posted June 13, 2020 So @quilp - should statues of dictators also be left in place? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gladys Posted June 13, 2020 Share Posted June 13, 2020 The purpose behind most of the statues of dictators is to remind everyone who is in charge, just as pictures of Stalin in all factories, public places etc were intended to remind everyone "who's the Daddy"! 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
quilp Posted June 13, 2020 Share Posted June 13, 2020 You got it Gladys, exactly as I saw it. @pongo It is up to the beholder's interpretation of any statue/monument (or any piece of symbolism/art) but if the viewer is more informed, by an additional plaque of explanation there is no reason why it should not stay in place. The current actions taken by 'protesters' are just acts of cultural vandalism as far as I'm concerned, a febrile attempt to wipe history and doesn't do the cause any good at all... 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
manxman1980 Posted June 13, 2020 Share Posted June 13, 2020 @quilp hardly wiping history. The removal of the Colston statue will have educated many about the Slave trade and the role that Colston had in it. How many people knew who Colston was before the events of the past week? 2 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pongo Posted June 13, 2020 Share Posted June 13, 2020 (edited) 36 minutes ago, Gladys said: The purpose behind most of the statues of dictators is to remind everyone who is in charge Most of the statues of Lenin went up long after he had died. Same as the slavers and imperialists. Same thing. Granted some used to try to argue that he was somehow less toxic then Stalin. Edited June 13, 2020 by pongo 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shake me up Judy Posted June 13, 2020 Share Posted June 13, 2020 Leave them up as a reminder and to educate future generations about their country's history. People can think for themselves. This destruction just dumbs everybody down. I'm fascinated by Italy's fascist era architecture for instance. Not because I admire Mussolini's legacy, but because I want to understand the history. What if we'd have obliterated Roman statuary and public buildings ? What would you have the French do with their Napoleonic past ? The Vikings (Norse pirates) ? Anyway, it's all kicking off down in London today, as predicted. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
quilp Posted June 13, 2020 Share Posted June 13, 2020 (edited) 41 minutes ago, manxman1980 said: @quilp hardly wiping history. The removal of the Colston statue will have educated many about the Slave trade and the role that Colston had in it. How many people knew who Colston was before the events of the past week? It is wiping history, at least those parts of history that have become loathsome. But as SMUJ says, people can think for themselves and it should have been left as an informative and thought-provoking icon to a dreadful period in world history. How far would you go? Cleopatra's needle, Mayan and Aztec symbolism..? And also, you summed it up yourself, "how many people knew who Colston was before the events of the past week?" that partucular statue has educated people. That's how it should be. Edited June 13, 2020 by quilp 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
piebaps Posted June 13, 2020 Share Posted June 13, 2020 Ripping down a few statues changes nothing. It simply gives a few nice photo opps for the millennials to post on insta. The cultural change required around racism is a much more difficult task and will require some hard work from society as a whole. These bandwagon types aren't interested in that kinda thing. In a short while, they'll flit onto the latest trendy cause and poor old George will be simply another statistic. Do statues make a difference? Do they fuck. An estimated 300k people have met violent deaths in Iraq AFTER the famous statue toppled. That's nearly 50 a day, every day for 17 years. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr Newbie Posted June 13, 2020 Share Posted June 13, 2020 2 minutes ago, piebaps said: Do statues make a difference? Do they fuck. An estimated 300k people have met violent deaths in Iraq AFTER the famous statue toppled. That's nearly 50 a day, every day for 17 years. So you’re saying toppling statues causes a rise in deaths? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
manxman1980 Posted June 13, 2020 Share Posted June 13, 2020 2 hours ago, quilp said: How far would you go? Cleopatra's needle, Mayan and Aztec symbolism..? Don't be stupid. Those are monuments and ruins which can be explained via information boards or guided tours. The same with the Pyramids. 2 hours ago, quilp said: And also, you summed it up yourself, "how many people knew who Colston was before the events of the past week?" that partucular statue has educated people. That's how it should be. Only as a result of it being torn down. I bet hardly anyone knew who he was before then. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Donald Trumps Posted June 13, 2020 Share Posted June 13, 2020 So is there going to be a statue of Stu Peters, or not? 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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