woolley Posted July 2, 2020 Share Posted July 2, 2020 10 minutes ago, Gladys said: Communism is great in theory but the theory doesn't allow for one vital element - human nature and greed. In other words, exactly what we were saying in that nature makes no allowances for our plans and schemes. It has its own way, and that way is the survival of the fittest. It applies to us as to every other species. The strong and gifted - and cunning and evil if you like - will never yield to the meek and limited because they will never understand why they should. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Donald Trumps Posted July 2, 2020 Share Posted July 2, 2020 It's not for governments to meddle in enterprise - we see the results here on the island when they do - but that doesn't mean they can't initiate it Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Donald Trumps Posted July 2, 2020 Share Posted July 2, 2020 Just now, woolley said: In other words, exactly what we were saying in that nature makes no allowances for our plans and schemes. It has its own way, and that way is the survival of the fittest. It applies to us as to every other species. The strong and gifted - and cunning and evil if you like - will never yield to the meek and limited because they will never understand why they should. They have to be made to. Apple, Amazon, Google & Microsoft - having initiated the end of capitalism - will be taken over or taken down It's how & when it happens that will set the tone or form of 'enterprise' in the rest of the 21st century Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HeliX Posted July 2, 2020 Share Posted July 2, 2020 30 minutes ago, Gladys said: Communism is great in theory but the theory doesn't allow for one vital element - human nature and greed. There's probably an argument to be made about comparative levels of harm caused by greed in capitalism vs in communism. Whether we like it or not, automation of jobs over the next couple hundred years is going to mean change is a-comin'. If we're not at least significantly more socialist then than we are now there's going to be a hell of a mess. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HeliX Posted July 2, 2020 Share Posted July 2, 2020 22 minutes ago, woolley said: Nooooooo. I would go with public ownership of utilities, but even then with a tight rein on efficiency because we've all seen where it leads. As for the wider economy, think British Leyland, Red Robbo et al. This is the old debate about who actually creates value. If nobody invests and takes risk, there are no jobs. Governments are very bad at business. But hey, thanks for the discussion. You can be a thoughtful poster when you aren't persecuting Stu Peters. Spot on!! How about the businesses being owned by the workers? (After any initial investment has been paid back to the person who created the business + a bit extra for the risk they took) It's funny how different topics cause vastly different levels of hostility between differing opinions. Something we can all probably work on I guess! But yes, I enjoyed this discussion and learned things - so thanks. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Donald Trumps Posted July 2, 2020 Share Posted July 2, 2020 Socialism will be renamed 'green enterprise' & nearly everyone will be happy 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scotty Posted July 2, 2020 Share Posted July 2, 2020 9 minutes ago, HeliX said: How about the businesses being owned by the workers? (After any initial investment has been paid back to the person who created the business + a bit extra for the risk they took) It's funny how different topics cause vastly different levels of hostility between differing opinions. Something we can all probably work on I guess! But yes, I enjoyed this discussion and learned things - so thanks. There is superb video on Facebook ( maybe elsewhere too) showing Ben Shapiro explaining to someone like you why that does not work. If can can manage to copy it over I will, but have struggled before trying to get videos from Facebook to here. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HeliX Posted July 2, 2020 Share Posted July 2, 2020 1 minute ago, Scotty said: There is superb video on Facebook ( maybe elsewhere too) showing Ben Shapiro explaining to someone like you why that does not work. If can can manage to copy it over I will, but have struggled before trying to get videos from Facebook to here. I'd rather you didn't, I've seen quite enough of Ben Shapiro All he does is gish gallop his "victims" into not being arsed anymore. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scotty Posted July 2, 2020 Share Posted July 2, 2020 8 minutes ago, HeliX said: I'd rather you didn't, I've seen quite enough of Ben Shapiro All he does is gish gallop his "victims" into not being arsed anymore. Very smart man though. Imagine if he or someone like him challenged some posters on here Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HeliX Posted July 2, 2020 Share Posted July 2, 2020 1 minute ago, Scotty said: Very smart man though. Imagine if he or someone like him challenged some posters on here I reckon he'd struggle in a textual debate. There are plenty of posters on here with plenty of nouse. He doesn't do well if he can't railroad the conversation, which is a lot harder to do on a forum as people have time to think about the wording of their replies etc. I think as far as mainstream opponents of "leftism" and Communism go, Jordan Peterson is considerably more articulate than Ben Shapiro. I don't agree with Peterson on much (though he is undoubtedly a gifted psychologist), but I can't help but admire his ability. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scotty Posted July 2, 2020 Share Posted July 2, 2020 (edited) 33 minutes ago, HeliX said: I reckon he'd struggle in a textual debate. There are plenty of posters on here with plenty of nouse. He doesn't do well if he can't railroad the conversation, which is a lot harder to do on a forum as people have time to think about the wording of their replies etc. I think as far as mainstream opponents of "leftism" and Communism go, Jordan Peterson is considerably more articulate than Ben Shapiro. I don't agree with Peterson on much (though he is undoubtedly a gifted psychologist), but I can't help but admire his ability. I don’t know who that Jordan Peterson is, but I am put off by his Christian name, as most Jordan’s I know off are idiots. I will google him though as you reckon he’s a smart cookie. edit to add that although I tend not to agree very often lately with your posts, you are clearly a smart cookie yourself. Edited July 2, 2020 by Scotty 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HeliX Posted July 2, 2020 Share Posted July 2, 2020 2 minutes ago, Scotty said: most Jordan’s I know off are idiots. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Dog's Dangly Bits Posted July 2, 2020 Share Posted July 2, 2020 1 hour ago, Donald Trumps said: It's not for governments to meddle in enterprise - we see the results here on the island when they do - but that doesn't mean they can't initiate it What's have they "meddled" in? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
quilp Posted July 2, 2020 Share Posted July 2, 2020 Ffs... 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scotty Posted July 2, 2020 Share Posted July 2, 2020 (edited) 24 minutes ago, HeliX said: Nah. Watched her video ( a few times ) on the boat. Not my bag. Edited July 2, 2020 by Scotty 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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