The Quiet Death Of Freedom

[Crozza]

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[Albert Tatlock]

Good article by Pilger.

 

It beggers belief that so many people do not know where we are going with all this?

 

...Surreal !

[Rog]

His tirade about ID cards is remarkably similar to the concerns that I expressed some time ago.

 

Apart from that, Pilger is a dangerous prat.

 

I can not stand the man.

[P.K.]

So Crozza, quite literally put your money where your mouth is and stop using Debit/Credit cards immediately!

[Chinahand]

The section of the article on the Legislative and Regulatory Reform Bill is out of date. Check out:

 

Epolitix.com

 

... and full of hyperbole ... the courts have an concept of legislative intent, any government that tried to use this bill to amend and ram through controversial amendments would create a constitutional crisis, AND end up expanding the powers the courts have for legislative review ... the amendments wouldn't be accepted as law. The idea that 500 years of common law etc can be overthrown by badly drafting (deliberately or not) a Bill designed and drafted to cut red tape is bollox. Hence the agreed ammendments refered to in the article above.

 

Other than that I'm reasonably in agreement that civil liberties are being seriously eroded by ID cards and the genetic and personal information being held by government.

 

I think he's exagerating and using too much bombast, but that is what journalism has become nowadays ... Crozza claims he's a REAL journalist ... distorting and exagerating and slanting to get his particular view across ... yep that sounds like a pretty good job description for journalists these days.

[Chinahand]

Pilinger likes the title

 

The Quiet Death of Freedom ... seems like he's used it before!

 

Similar points ... I'm sympathetic and basically agree that civil liberties are being slowly eroded ... but ... its overblown especially when he starts comparing Bush with Stalin ... I'm sure Crozza will like it ...

[Albert Tatlock]

... but ... its overblown especially when he starts comparing Bush with Stalin ...

...not the same Bush that can now access all of your personal financial records on the Isle of Man by just asking for them?

 

...from Bush v Stalin (half way down page)

 

"Stalin eliminated the distinction between business and government through socialisation of major industries. Bush is eliminating the distinction between business and government by just kind of handing the government over to a bunch of businesses (cf. the famed “no bid contracts,” Cheney’s “energy policy” committee that was composed solely of oil industry figures, the rewriting of EPA reports at the behest of the energy industry, etc…)

Stalin liked secrecy. Bush LOVES secrecy.

Stalin thought torture was fun. Bush also thinks so!

Stalin was fond of taking over neighboring countries in the name of "liberating" them. Bush likes to take over distant countries in the name of liberating them!

Stalin liked to manipulate "science," using fake research because it supported his politics. Bush also likes to fake the science!

Stalin had his own news apparatus. Bush has his own news apparatus!

 

George W. Bush has accepted Jesus as his personal saviour and will spend eternity in the arms of a loving God. Stalin hated Jesus and is currently roasting in Hell, where he will burn for all time. Not for the killing and lying mind you, just for the not believing in Jesus part. Because that's wrong.

 

So, in conclusion, all the "pundits' who've been comparing Bush to Stalin have really missed the big picture. Plus, Stalin was never a pathetic, alcoholic, coke-head. True fact."

[Chinahand]

... but ... its overblown especially when he starts comparing Bush with Stalin ...

...not the same Bush that can now access all of your personal financial records on the Isle of Man by just asking for them?

 

I think you will find he ... or more specifically the SEC, IRS or whatever financial organization is undertaking the investigation ... has to show "reasonable cause" ... No, they can't just phone up and ask for Albert Tatlock's overdraft.

[Albert Tatlock]

... but ... its overblown especially when he starts comparing Bush with Stalin ...

...not the same Bush that can now access all of your personal financial records on the Isle of Man by just asking for them?

 

I think you will find he ... or more specifically the SEC, IRS or whatever financial organization is undertaking the investigation ... has to show "reasonable cause" ... No, they can't just phone up and ask for Albert Tatlock's overdraft.

Hmmm...since when was organisation spelled with a 'Zee'...unhand me, Yankee!

 

(that said I think most people forget that there is a great distinction between being anti-American and being anti-Bush).

[Crozza]

.

[Rog]

Very few people stop and ask themselves why the erosion of our freedoms is taking place.

 

The REAL reason, the root cause, is islamic terrorism wherein our societies are under threat and actual attack from people hell bent on pursuing their own agenda and, especially in the case of the introduction of ID cards, aided by the disgusting open door policy to immigration by NuLabour.

 

It'll be a sad irony if the people who are really to blame for our losses gain by the remedies that our governments have to introduce.

[Albert Tatlock]

Very few people stop and ask themselves why the erosion of our freedoms is taking place.

 

The REAL reason, the root cause, is islamic terrorism wherein our societies are under threat and actual attack from people hell bent on pursuing their own agenda and, especially in the case of the introduction of ID cards, aided by the disgusting open door policy to immigration by NuLabour.

 

It'll be a sad irony if the people who are really to blame for our losses gain by the remedies that our governments have to introduce.

I think you over simplify. IMHO opinion the causes are many, though include:

 

1. The little mentioned war between the 85% of Christians in the US (led by the Neocons) and Islam - (disguised as the 'war on terror').

2. The marketing, spin and general low standards in politics - and the adoption of every half-witted lobby group idea that gets into the media e.g. what is David Cameron really going to learn in an ice cave in Norway that we don't already know?

3. The associated power and low standards of the media - now owned by only a few large companies. It's what does not get into the news that should really concern people more.

4. A general lack of mathematical skills - and the inability to analyse fact, nor understand probability and risk. Everyone's a scientist these days e.g. every report on 'BBC Breakfast' is treated as being scientifically correct! ...though e.g. most people don't realise that you currently have more chance of winning the UK lottery than by being killed by a terrorist.

5. The overall failure of people to try and seek compromise and to look at the 'big picture' i.e. the tendency to treat all issues as yes/no 'single issues' - and fail to notice the cumulative effect on civil liberties.

 

But perhaps the biggest cause of all, is our own apathy, which the government and lobby groups have now learned to use against us (with many lobby groups now actually operating from within government) - while most of us just sit back and watch it all happen.

[Rog]

Albert T writes --- The overall failure of people to try and seek compromise and to look at the 'big picture' i.e. the tendency to treat all issues as yes/no 'single issues' - and fail to notice the cumulative effect on civil liberties.

 

You can’t negotiate with any bloc who can not move from their dedicated aim of imposing their way on the whole world.

 

To such people there can be NO compromise only a delay in the program.

 

As for “The little mentioned war between the 85% of Christians in the US (led by the Neocons) and Islam - (disguised as the 'war on terror').” --- the war that is taking place is NOT between “the 85% of Christians in the US (led by the Neocons)” – and let’s not be petty here, Neocons means Jews.

 

This war is between modern evolved societies and civilisation on the one hand and the archaic superstitious 7th century morality of a savage tribal society who lived in a savage land in savage times and only survived and thrived by being more savage than the rest. It IS a war against islam and it is a war that must be fought and must be won.

 

The implications of loosing this war don’t bear thinking about.

 

Also let’s keep firmly on focus that this war was not created by the West, it was launched against the West. There is even good argument to support the view that the war has been taking place for 1300 years with nothing more than periods or armistice from time to time. It’s the global fiscal situation combined with population mobility amounting to invasion of the West not by people who want to join a nation and fit in but rather by islamic colonies that has brought it now onto OUR doorsteps.

 

It’s a viewpoint that I subscribe to.

 

I’m 60 years old and there’s a good many people who read this forum who will still be around many years after I’m dust. I just wonder what time will tell and if my concern will prove to be well founded or if I get proved to be wrong. I most sincerely hope that I am proved to be wrong, but I very much doubt it.

[Albert Tatlock]

Albert T writes --- The overall failure of people to try and seek compromise and to look at the 'big picture' i.e. the tendency to treat all issues as yes/no 'single issues' - and fail to notice the cumulative effect on civil liberties.

 

You can’t negotiate with any bloc who can not move from their dedicated aim of imposing their way on the whole world.

 

To such people there can be NO compromise only a delay in the program.

 

As for “The little mentioned war between the 85% of Christians in the US (led by the Neocons) and Islam - (disguised as the 'war on terror').” --- the war that is taking place is NOT between “the 85% of Christians in the US (led by the Neocons)” – and let’s not be petty here, Neocons means Jews.

 

This war is between modern evolved societies and civilisation on the one hand and the archaic superstitious 7th century morality of a savage tribal society who lived in a savage land in savage times and only survived and thrived by being more savage than the rest. It IS a war against islam and it is a war that must be fought and must be won.

 

The implications of loosing this war don’t bear thinking about.

 

Also let’s keep firmly on focus that this war was not created by the West, it was launched against the West. There is even good argument to support the view that the war has been taking place for 1300 years with nothing more than periods or armistice from time to time. It’s the global fiscal situation combined with population mobility amounting to invasion of the West not by people who want to join a nation and fit in but rather by islamic colonies that has brought it now onto OUR doorsteps.

 

It’s a viewpoint that I subscribe to.

 

I’m 60 years old and there’s a good many people who read this forum who will still be around many years after I’m dust. I just wonder what time will tell and if my concern will prove to be well founded or if I get proved to be wrong. I most sincerely hope that I am proved to be wrong, but I very much doubt it.

I have never read such 'clap trap' in my life. You are so busily focussed on this single issue that it looks like you didn't even read your own first post in this thread.

 

- Whether you like it or not the Islamic world consists of over 500 million people, similar to the populations of the US and Europe put together. Are you saying that this won’t be over until they are all dead? And then who’s next? - the one billion Chinese and one billion Indians that might think differently from you? Of course you have to seek compromise.

 

Let's hope you never get your finger close to the nuclear button, as people with such an opinion will make most people on here 'turn to dust' - long before they get to 60 years of age.

[Rog]

- Whether you like it or not the Islamic world consists of over 500 million people, similar to the populations of the US and Europe put together. Are you saying that this won’t be over until they are all dead? And then who’s next? - the one billion Chinese and one billion Indians that might think differently from you? Of course you have to seek compromise.

 

Let's hope you never get your finger close to the nuclear button, as people with such an opinion will make most people on here 'turn to dust' - long before they get to 60 years of age.

 

First off there's a dam sight more than 500 mil mohammedans but the real issue is that islam can NOT compromise.

 

THAT'S the problem and I don't see a solution other than a stalemate. Even then the only real hope is the collapse of religion - something that will benefit all mankind. Certainly to me my being a Jew is about tradition, roots, and politics and not about a belief in any God.