English Flags

[LoneWolf]

Am I the only person on this rock who finds it annoying and insulting that people are flying the flag of St George on their cars, on their houses and anywhere else they can find ?

I have never been a "boat in the morning" person but this is really getting up my nose. Why, if these english patriots, feel so driven to fly their flag, are they living on the Island ?

I for one do not not like the idea of foreign nationals coming to the Island and indulging in insulting displays of colonialism.

Please stop it!! You do not live there anymore and The Isle of Man is not England [Thank God]

[Gladys]

See my earlier posts LW!

 

Whoops, just noticed its a new thread!!

[Mission]

Already done dude.

[Nitro]

Am I the only person on this rock who finds it annoying and insulting that people are flying the flag of St George on their cars, on their houses and anywhere else they can find ?

I have never been a "boat in the morning" person but this is really getting up my nose. Why, if these english patriots, feel so driven to fly their flag, are they living on the Island ?

I for one do not not like the idea of foreign nationals coming to the Island and indulging in insulting displays of colonialism.

Please stop it!! You do not live there anymore and The Isle of Man is not England [Thank God]

 

Quite a long thread here : http://www.manxforums.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=11568

 

Yes its annoying to some people but its only a flag!, Whats the big deal?

 

Edit: Missed Mission's post, I'm just slow at typing!

[LoneWolf]

Am I the only person on this rock who finds it annoying and insulting that people are flying the flag of St George on their cars, on their houses and anywhere else they can find ?

I have never been a "boat in the morning" person but this is really getting up my nose. Why, if these english patriots, feel so driven to fly their flag, are they living on the Island ?

I for one do not not like the idea of foreign nationals coming to the Island and indulging in insulting displays of colonialism.

Please stop it!! You do not live there anymore and The Isle of Man is not England [Thank God]

 

Quite a long thread here : http://www.manxforums.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=11568

 

Yes its annoying to some people but its only a flag!, Whats the big deal?

 

Edit: Missed Mission's post, I'm just slow at typing!

 

My apologies folks ...hadnt seen the earlier thread. No excuse I feel suitably chastened.

[LoneWolf]

Already done dude.

 

Just a pity you didnt take any notice of it and replace your vomit inducing avataar with something more appropriate to the Isle of Man ..... DUDE.

[VinnieK]

It's a bit rash to equate the flying of a flag with colonialism, and I never had a problem with it when I lived on the Island, just as I don't have a problem with seeing Italian or French flags, or Russian and Polish language newspapers for sale when I go for a walk into town where I am now, despite them all being similar examples of a distinct community projectings its identity onto the surrounding area. That people want to celebrate their origins, or preserve some aspect of their identity within a host culture is not necessarily the result of some colonialist impulse, nor need it be seen as a hostile or defiant gesture towards the rest of community.

 

Although the argument could be made that it's indicative of a mentality that drives people here solely for the financial benefits the Island offers, this is simply the nature of much of immigration. When, for instance, people talk of the great migrations to the U.S. (and, to a lesser extent, Canada), the motivation quoted is that of opportunity, i.e. the economic advantages that living in the U.S. offered, not of culture. Similarly, it hardly needs to be pointed out that many Manx people do exactly the same: relocating to England solely for the benefits and advantages (the most obvious example being that of a considerable bulk of Manx students). Should the British government close its doors to them on the basis that they're only there to benefit themselves and make no real attempt to embrace the culture?

 

Also, I've seen a surprising number of homes flying the Manx flag over here (particularly in York, for some reason), especially on Tynwald day. Yet I've yet to hear complaints being issued or suggestions that they should go back to where they came from. I would hope that whatever sense of Manx culture there is isn't so insecure that it feels genuinely threatened or offended by people from other nations displaying the same kind of pride in their origins.

[Mission]

Already done dude.

 

Just a pity you didnt take any notice of it and replace your vomit inducing avataar with something more appropriate to the Isle of Man ..... DUDE.

 

Why would I dude, I am English after all.

 

[LoneWolf]

It's a bit rash to equate the flying of a flag with colonialism, and I never had a problem with it when I lived on the Island, just as I don't have a problem with seeing Italian or French flags, or Russian and Polish language newspapers for sale when I go for a walk into town where I am now, despite them all being similar examples of a distinct community projectings its identity onto the surrounding area. That people want to celebrate their origins, or preserve some aspect of their identity within a host culture is not necessarily the result of some colonialist impulse, nor need it be seen as a hostile or defiant gesture towards the rest of community.

 

Good point Vinnie except in the case of the English there is the little matter of their history.

In addition, the flag of st George does send out a rather nasty contemporary political message.

 

Also, I've seen a surprising number of homes flying the Manx flag over here (particularly in York, for some reason), especially on Tynwald day. Yet I've yet to hear complaints being issued or suggestions that they should go back to where they came from. I would hope that whatever sense of Manx culture there is isn't so insecure that it feels genuinely threatened or offended by people from other nations displaying the same kind of pride in their origins.

 

Good on them! Anyone flying the Manx flag in the UK has my support. The Manx flag certainly isnt a reminder of a nasty colonialist past and, despite what Professor G Broderick has to say, it doesnt send out any messages of right wing affiliations.

For what its worth, I dont have any issue at all with people who might wish to fly the Union Flag. But that celebration of right wing nasty english politics ...no way.

[LoneWolf]

Already done dude.

 

Just a pity you didnt take any notice of it and replace your vomit inducing avataar with something more appropriate to the Isle of Man ..... DUDE.

 

Why would I dude, I am English after all.

 

 

Hey Mission, there is nothing at all wrong with being English. There is everything wrong with the political and historical messages sent out by that flag.

[Mission]

Only if you see it that way dude. To me, it's just my national flag.

[Gladys]

Thinking about it in more detail, I have the opposite view to you LW. I object less to the St George's cross flag, because that really is only flown to support a team in an international sports event (but why that should stir up nationalistic feelings is beyond me, just as is the offside rule in cricket). Don't like the BNP-type connotations, but I doubt that that is a real problem here.

 

But I do object to a colonial flag being permanently flown at houses here. It doesn't seem as frequent as it used to, but given the number of ex-colonials that moved here during the 60s and 70s, it was probably a hangover from them reinforcing the colonial influence in the far flung corners of the empire that they administered.

 

By the by, I don't mind Mission's new Avatar, mainly because it is clearly a rugby team shirt, or something, and also because Mish is quite a nice chap!

[integer]

Good on them! Anyone flying the Manx flag in the UK has my support.

 

So its ok for you to fly the Manx flag abroad, but not for English to fly theirs here? Perhaps if you let the English fly their flag without complaining about it, its recent racist connotations would be diluted and you'd no longer have to take offense at it.....

 

Im surprised that you are so offended by its nationalist associations, given the strength of your obvious "nationalism".

[VinnieK]

Good point Vinnie except in the case of the English there is the little matter of their history.

In addition, the flag of st George does send out a rather nasty contemporary political message.

 

The sins of the father and all that?

 

In such an instance, I hope that everyone who's opposed to flying St. George's flag on this basis at least has the principles to match their convictions and are also opposed to the flying of the flags of Spain, France, Belgium, Portugal, Russia, Germany, and indeed most of the Western European nations - who all at some point or another engaged in imperial policy, some of which was considerably more bloody than that of the United Kingdom. Indeed, you might also want to object to the Scottish flag as well, not simply because of their previous rule of the island, but also because (as any history of empire shows) the Scots were leading and rather enthusiastic participants in Britain's imperial expansion, in both an administrative and military role. Despite the nationalistic romanticism of the 19th century, Scotland entered the act of union willingly in an attempt to offset the economic and political weakness of Scotland, and often her politicians found themselves a driving force behind expansion and colonialism. Indeed, even before the act of Union, the scots were enthusiastic (if unsuccessful) imperialists, and let it not be forgotten that the British Empire first found a true footing under the reign of James I/IV.

 

Whilst it's true that St George's cross has been appropriated by racist thugs, this isn't as strong an argument as it may first appear. All national flags form a banner under which right wing nutcases rally, from neo-fascist groups flaunting the Stars and Stripes to their equivalent organizations in, say, France perverting the tricolor to their own ends. Should Germans abandon their folklore because it was once manipulated by the Nazis to focus prejudices upon ethnic minorities? Of course not. In any case, the context in which the English flag is currently being flown makes it all the more obvious that its presence is not some right wing fascist gesture, and, I'm afraid to say, makes allusions to groups like the BNP as a justification for objection seem more than just a little questionable.

 

For what its worth, I dont have any issue at all with people who might wish to fly the Union Flag. But that celebration of right wing nasty english politics ...no way.

 

But this goes against nearly everything you previously stated as your reasons for disliking the flag of St George. The Union flag was the symbol of empire, the flag under which armies marched and which was raised above embassies, residencies, and administrative palaces. If anything, the Union flag has a far, far stronger link with the imperial past than St George's.

[MrsTrellisfromNorthWales]

What better way of expressing one's patriotism is there than by sticking a Chinese-made plastic flag on your German-made car?