English Flags

[Heathen]

Good on them! Anyone flying the Manx flag in the UK has my support. The Manx flag certainly isnt a reminder of a nasty colonialist past and, despite what Professor G Broderick has to say, it doesnt send out any messages of right wing affiliations.For what its worth, I dont have any issue at all with people who might wish to fly the Union Flag. But that celebration of right wing nasty english politics ...no way.

 

 

No? Well this isn't the first time I've posted this and I'm sure you'll be shocked to know that not everybody on the planet is aware of the Isle of Mans existence so have no idea of our national flag. So if they do equate these two flags with each other it's hardly their fault is it?

 

 

[Gladys]

Hardly surprising they are similar, they come from the same source! You see the same sign in Hindu culture and elsewhere.

[LoneWolf]

But this goes against nearly everything you previously stated as your reasons for disliking the flag of St George. The Union flag was the symbol of empire, the flag under which armies marched and which was raised above embassies, residencies, and administrative palaces. If anything, the Union flag has a far, far stronger link with the imperial past than St George's.

 

The fact of the matter, Vinnie, is that I probably dont have a logical reason for disliking folks flying the cross of St George.

It does send out some messages I find objectionable ....

I do not like the way it has been hijacked by right wing organisations such as the BNP and I do not like the foul mannered, beer bellied, shaven headed, drunks who wear T shirts emblazoned with the red cross of jolly england and terrorise the inhabitants of Spanish holiday resorts.

People are flying it at the moment because the world cup tournament is coming along soon.

Nothing I say will persuade people not to fly their flags but lets face it anyhow ..England have less chance of winning the tournament than the Chief Rabbi has of becoming Pope.

Me ... prior to the first game I am looking for a Paraguay flag to fly outside my home and a Paraguay pennant to fly on my car.

[RC-Drift.com]

What's wrong with patriotism, I'm English not British and proud of that fact and will never be Manx as long as I've a hole in my arse, and I know plenty of Manx citizens who would think I was insulting them for flying their flag

 

LW, you're the type person doing the insulting

[LoneWolf]

What's wrong with patriotism, I'm English not British and proud of that fact and will never be Manx as long as I've a hole in my arse, and I know plenty of Manx citizens who would think I was insulting them for flying their flag

 

LW, you're the type person doing the insulting

 

I havent insulted anyone. I just dont like idiots flying the flag of St George.

As for being English but not British [????]...I take it you will be flying the flag of St George

[mollag]

I just dont understand why people feel the need to express their nationality pride through sport, whether to celebrate? or to show, show who? Who cares?. Have a look at Desmond Morris, "The Soccer Tribe" he pegs it for what it is, primative tribal culture

Does anyone really give a shit that you support team x? not really so why bother with all the merchandising crap that goes with it.

As to national teams, get outa here, foreign managers, soon it will be foreign players much as the "english leagues " have gone. Guys----its a business, they are there to take money off you, they sell the flags and shit to earn money not out of national fervour.

 

What we need now are deely boppers in national team colours, now that would be classy,

[Gladys]

I liked deely boppers, I had a pair with little yellow windmills on. Now, that was class!

[Heathen]

BHF Shops have launched a new range of football merchandise to mark England's achievement on reaching the football World Cup finals this summer.

 

 

The nation's heart charity is supporting the England team in their bid for glory, whilst helping to raise vital funds for heart disease.

 

The range of England football merchandise starts at £1 and includes car flags, mini-footballs, magnets, hair toggles and head wobbling deeley boppers, which will all be available in BHF Shops across England from 5th May.

 

There you go!

[LoneWolf]

I liked deely boppers, I had a pair with little yellow windmills on. Now, that was class!

 

I always had a thing about girls who had deely boppers !

[VinnieK]

I havent insulted anyone. I just dont like idiots flying the flag of St George.

As for being English but not British [????]...I take it you will be flying the flag of St George

 

Actually, there have been severel implicit themes, intentional or otherwise, to your original post that could be taken as insulting:

 

1. That those who fly St George's flag are sending out a right wing message regardless of their intention.

 

2. That English patriotism is less legitimate than Manx patriotism, the latter of which should be celebrated, whereas the former suggests that those who indulge it should just sod off.

 

3. That those who fly the flag are idiots.

 

I don't even like football, and I don't care that much for English or any other kind of nationalism. But this idea that the English should forever be ashamed of their country's imperial past is questionable given the context and wider European and International history of that and subsequent periods. It does little but make it seem like Manx attitudes towards the outside world are characterised by a stagnant and opportunistic adoption of a victim mentality.

 

Secondly, I simply don't understand the point about racist groups adoption of the flag of St George. It would hardly be creditable were one to object to, say, the English flag flying above an English church or on the White Ensign as being guilty of sending out a racist message, and so it is the case with the majority of people who's simple desire is to support a particular football team with the flag of its nation. The flag only has racist connotations if one is happy to identify it entirely with a racist minority's cynical manipulation of it, which is not merely illogical, but deeply unfair to a nation of over forty million souls.

[Gladys]

I liked deely boppers, I had a pair with little yellow windmills on. Now, that was class!

 

I always had a thing about girls who had deely boppers !

Why thank you LW, it WAS after my window-licking phase, however!

[Gladys]

I havent insulted anyone. I just dont like idiots flying the flag of St George.

As for being English but not British [????]...I take it you will be flying the flag of St George

 

Actually, there have been severel implicit themes, intentional or otherwise, to your original post that could be taken as insulting:

 

1. That those who fly St George's flag are sending out a right wing message regardless of their intention.

 

2. That English patriotism is less legitimate than Manx patriotism, the latter of which should be celebrated, whereas the former suggests that those who indulge it should just sod off.

 

3. That those who fly the flag are idiots.

 

I don't even like football, and I don't care that much for English or any other kind of nationalism. But this idea that the English should forever be ashamed of their country's imperial past is questionable given the context and wider European and International history of that and subsequent periods. It does little but make it seem like Manx attitudes towards the outside world are characterised by a stagnant and opportunistic adoption of a victim mentality.

 

Secondly, I simply don't understand the point about racist groups adoption of the flag of St George. It would hardly be creditable were one to object to, say, the English flag flying above an English church or on the White Ensign as being guilty of sending out a racist message, and so it is the case with the majority of people who's simple desire is to support a particular football team with the flag of its nation. The flag only has racist connotations if one is happy to identify it entirely with a racist minority's cynical manipulation of it, which is not merely illogical, but deeply unfair to a nation of over forty million souls.

Entirely innocent question here, but outside of sports is England a country in its own right?

[iom_cb]

Entirely innocent question here, but outside of sports is England a country in its own right?

 

It is a country in its own right....but it is not sovereign. The United Kingdom is the soverign state which is made of three countries (england / scotland / northern ireland) and a principlaity (wales).

[LoneWolf]

Actually, there have been severel implicit themes, intentional or otherwise, to your original post that could be taken as insulting:

 

1. That those who fly St George's flag are sending out a right wing message regardless of their intention.

 

A shame I agree but, nevertheless, the English flag is linked with both racist groups and with drunken bahaviour and violence.

 

2. That English patriotism is less legitimate than Manx patriotism, the latter of which should be celebrated, whereas the former suggests that those who indulge it should just sod off.

 

Nothing to do with patriotism Vinnie. I think I made the point, albeit badly, that the flag in question has been highjacked by racists and by beer bellied drunken thugs. Believe me, there are thousands of Spanish people who shudder when they see a gang of English youths approaching bedecked in white T shirts emb;azoned with the flag of st george as well as splashes of spilt beer and vomit.

 

 

3. That those who fly the flag are idiots.

 

Actually that was me exercising my sense of humour against someone who claims to be english but not british

 

Secondly, I simply don't understand the point about racist groups adoption of the flag of St George. It would hardly be creditable were one to object to, say, the English flag flying above an English church or on the White Ensign as being guilty of sending out a racist message, and so it is the case with the majority of people who's simple desire is to support a particular football team with the flag of its nation. The flag only has racist connotations if one is happy to identify it entirely with a racist minority's cynical manipulation of it, which is not merely illogical, but deeply unfair to a nation of over forty million souls.

 

Precisely the point ! There is in my opinion a time and a place for flag flying. The white ensign, for example, is only supposed to be flown on ships which are currently part of the RN fleet. Exceptions have been granted to the destroyer memorial, HMS Cavalier, and to various ex service organisations. The Union Flag and the flag of St George should be treated the same way. We then wouldnt have the current situation where a flag has been hijacked as an emblem of racism and linked with drunken behaviour.

Apart from that it annoys people and there is plenty of evidence that people are annoyed by it on this forum alone.

I am just beginning my apprenticeship as a grumpy old sod, and it wont be too long until you begin your own, so leave me alone to have illogical dislikes I have to spend my entire working life being logical please allow me to be unreasonably grumpy in my spare time

[Gladys]

Entirely innocent question here, but outside of sports is England a country in its own right?

 

It is a country in its own right....but it is not sovereign. The United Kingdom is the soverign state which is made of three countries (england / scotland / northern ireland) and a principlaity (wales).

Thank you. But what qualifies as a country?