LoneWolf Posted May 21, 2006 Author Share Posted May 21, 2006 Thank you. But what qualifies as a country? It aint a nation state if thats what you are getting at but I believe there is a different legal system in England than applies in Scotland or N Ireland. Probably we have an expert on matters constitutional ..I would guess young Vinnie ? ... who can give the definition Gladys is looking for ? Dont know if this helps or how credible it is Country a definition Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VinnieK Posted May 22, 2006 Share Posted May 22, 2006 I am just beginning my apprenticeship as a grumpy old sod, and it wont be too long until you begin your own, so leave me alone to have illogical dislikes I have to spend my entire working life being logical please allow me to be unreasonably grumpy in my spare time I'm already at that stage already, why else do you think I spend so much of my time being so insufferable and pompous an ass on here? As for countries, etc: It's a difficult question, as even legally terms are sometimes used interchangeably in a manner that confuses the distinction of country, and so it often comes down to semantic or philosophical matters when defining things like countries, etc. Generally speaking, within the UK, England can (and is) defined as a constitute country of the UK (which itself can be referred to as a country). Similarly, England is also a constituent nation of a larger nation - Great Britain). The term 'State' (outside of the US) is more precise, and does have a legal foundation, since the concept of the State was invented to account for an administrative entity. Neither England or Scotland can truly be regarded as states (or the UK as a federation of states) because there isn't sufficient autonomy between the two, and both have a shared sovereignty. For a general rule of thumb, a good (but controversial) example would be the Basque and Catalan regions of Spain: You could say that these regions are countries, populated by distinct nations, but the state in which they reside is Spain. However, when we think of 'countries' in everyday terms, we're tyically thinking of states, since we tend to identify them by government (i.e. each government corresponds to a separate 'country' in our view). As such, in everyday terms you wouldn't really say that England is a country. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gladys Posted May 22, 2006 Share Posted May 22, 2006 However, when we think of 'countries' in everyday terms, we're tyically thinking of states, since we tend to identify them by government (i.e. each government corresponds to a separate 'country' in our view). As such, in everyday terms you wouldn't really say that England is a country. Thank you Vinnie, I thought that would be the outcome. Funny how difficult it is to come up with exact definitions of the terms we use every day, but when you take time to think, the connotations we give these things are often spurious. Logic dictates that you cannot, therefore, be offended by the nationalistic implications of the flag of St George as it is not the flag of a country! Emotion, however, dictates that it is fceking annoying to see Union or St George's flags flying the IOM! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tea&Biscuits Posted May 22, 2006 Share Posted May 22, 2006 I dont think that St George flag has nasty right wing connotations held to it as much as the Union Jack? Most people in the UK I believe just see the flag as simpy a symbol of the UK. The Union Jack is alot more controversial. I see flying the St George as a fun way of expressing your support for the UK in the world cup and I know many Manx people feel they will obviously be supporting the UK as the Manx dont have team etc. In london I see many nationalities with the St G flag hanging off their cars, windows - its not unusual to see black, asian people wearing St G t-shirts as many people will just see it as fun, and many 2nd generation immigrants also love the country they have grown up in an will be supporting and flying the St G for the world cup! many people in the isle of man are UK, or have UK parents so why not fly the flags? I dont know why you would get so worked up about people flying the St G at a time of a major footie tournament. Ill tell you one thing, the IOM last time i was over looked like a communist state with the amount of manx flags flying everywhere! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VinnieK Posted May 22, 2006 Share Posted May 22, 2006 the IOM last time i was over looked like a communist state with the amount of manx flags flying everywhere! I thought that as well! The combination of the flags hanging all over the promenade and the prominant KFC sign over the grim square near RBS makes it look like this communist state worships Colonel Sanders as its equivalent of Chairman Mao. Comrades! The worker's paradise is built upon a foundation of fried chicken! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mollag Posted May 22, 2006 Share Posted May 22, 2006 Nah, your all way out, a communist state would have an undemocratic Government, u know, people governing without a franchise from the people, never happen here! And anyhoo, u can tell commie governments, the biggest employer is always thw state, Remember, i know where u live, Comrade Manny Festo Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alias Posted May 22, 2006 Share Posted May 22, 2006 Nah, your all way out, a communist state would have an undemocratic Government, u know, people governing without a franchise from the people, never happen here!And anyhoo, u can tell commie governments, the biggest employer is always thw state, Remember, i know where u live, Comrade Manny Festo Communism and totalitarianism are different entitites. Communism can co-exist with democracy. Also, the government being the biggest employer is more a sign of fascism, as the structure of employment in communism is totally different. edit: Sorry i thought you were digging more than joking Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mollag Posted May 22, 2006 Share Posted May 22, 2006 A not to good an attempt at humour on my part it seems, i will try harder. Being of the left myself , im intrigued, any examples of communism co existing with democracy. President Allende tried but he was ruled offside and i cant think of any other genuine democretically elected communist Govt. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
simon Posted May 22, 2006 Share Posted May 22, 2006 the IOM last time i was over looked like a communist state with the amount of manx flags flying everywhere! Could be taken as a sign of cultural anxiety; a small population proudly marking an uncertain independence. Like in the north of Ireland where a flag proclaims ownership of every tree and lamp post - and the paving slabs are either red, white and blue - or green, white and orange. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Albert Tatlock Posted June 3, 2006 Share Posted June 3, 2006 A report in the Independent (national) said that cars with two flags use an extra litre of fuel for every hour they travel at just 30mph...likely to add up to 1.22 million litres of extra fuel burnt during the world cup. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ans Posted June 3, 2006 Share Posted June 3, 2006 Realistically we are England in this situation. o rly? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Albert Tatlock Posted June 3, 2006 Share Posted June 3, 2006 Oh come on Ans me old China! We are a crown dependancy..... We are A commonwealth Island.... I may be confused... but this has something to do with the Queen of ENGLAND... As the Queen's full title in the United Kingdom is Elizabeth the Second, by the Grace of God, of the United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland, and of her other Realms and Territories Queen, Head of the Commonwealth, Defender of the Faith" ...so dats why I be supporting Jamaica dis afternoon Mon. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hboy Posted June 3, 2006 Share Posted June 3, 2006 I dont think that St George flag has nasty right wing connotations held to it as much as the Union Jack? Most people in the UK I believe just see the flag as simpy a symbol of the UK. The Union Jack is alot more controversial. I see flying the St George as a fun way of expressing your support for the UK in the world cup and I know many Manx people feel they will obviously be supporting the UK as the Manx dont have team etc. In london I see many nationalities with the St G flag hanging off their cars, windows - its not unusual to see black, asian people wearing St G t-shirts as many people will just see it as fun, and many 2nd generation immigrants also love the country they have grown up in an will be supporting and flying the St G for the world cup! The flag of St George has become a symbol of honour amongst the ignorant, carling drinking, tattoed, chav arseholes that have turned football into a pathetic excuse for misplaced nationalism. Its also used by the BNP and virtually every other group of aggressive "nob-ends" that seem to think that being English is defined by beer, curry, football and fighting. It should be a source of national embarrassment for the UK as its become the flag of Britains new cultural crusade to turn every town into some puke-stained no go area. That is why I find it offensive. Particularly as we are not in England in the firstplace. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alias Posted June 3, 2006 Share Posted June 3, 2006 Shame the new seacat paint jobby wasn't St George's flag instead, would see the locals more bothered than any old MEA saga. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mission Posted June 3, 2006 Share Posted June 3, 2006 I dunno about England flags, England shirts seem to be 'in' at present, spotted far more of them around town today than I did flags on cars. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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