Heathen Posted May 30, 2006 Share Posted May 30, 2006 So the question is "Do you believe that immigration by non-Britons is unwanted?" ok I can vote on that. Hmmm ... I believe immigration by non Britons is unwanted by the Whitehouse Friday night regulars. I do not believe immigration by non Britons is unwanted by the East European family who live nearby. I do believe the question is a loaded one !! Do you think that extends to immigrants from the Republic of Ireland? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LoneWolf Posted May 30, 2006 Share Posted May 30, 2006 Do you think that extends to immigrants from the Republic of Ireland? Interesting question. I carry some doubts that Irish incomers from the republic would be classified as immigrants by this particular "focus group" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Albert Tatlock Posted May 30, 2006 Share Posted May 30, 2006 Oh, and for the record I am anything but racist!! I deliberately tried to avoid the phrase/accusation 'racist' in several posts - but if you are selective about whom you debate - how can you be seen as anything else? You may have said 'discuss...' but you fundamentally flawed yourself by the post heading and sub-heading. I suppose I could be seen as 'racist' by my comments...but I would actually categorise myself as a 'Manx Culturist'. I have spent half my life on the island, a quarter in Europe and a quarter in the UK so my comments are based only on my own experiences. The main point I'm trying to get across here is that as a 'culturist', whether it's white Brits, economic migrant Poles or a bunch of Somalians trying to change the place I was brought up in, and brought my own kids up in, we have major lessons to learn from the way the UK handled immigration. The Isle Of Man is the size of a small British Town, and if we get it wrong we will change the place forever. However, these changes are happening now and need to be considered now - before it's too late. This statement does not represent my employers views, and after several beers may not be representative of what I'm really thinking at the moment. In fact it could all be a dream. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Heathen Posted May 30, 2006 Share Posted May 30, 2006 Do you think that extends to immigrants from the Republic of Ireland? Interesting question. I carry some doubts that Irish incomers from the republic would be classified as immigrants by this particular "focus group" That has been my thinking for many years and I've asked the question many times of the "send 'em back" brigade that do they think we should start with Ireland as they are the closest? Dumbfounded looks are the usual response. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gladys Posted May 30, 2006 Share Posted May 30, 2006 Do you think that extends to immigrants from the Republic of Ireland? Interesting question. I carry some doubts that Irish incomers from the republic would be classified as immigrants by this particular "focus group" That has been my thinking for many years and I've asked the question many times of the "send 'em back" brigade that do they think we should start with Ireland as they are the closest? Dumbfounded looks are the usual response. Immigration from Ireland has probably been seen, historically, as offering asylum to those oppressed by the common enemy to the East! The views expressed here are not those of my employer who doesn't know I post here and probably wouldn't give a tinker's cuss anyway. However, I reserve the right to change my mind if my views prove unpopular or someone else comes up with a better argument. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Albert Tatlock Posted May 30, 2006 Share Posted May 30, 2006 Do you think that extends to immigrants from the Republic of Ireland? Interesting question. I carry some doubts that Irish incomers from the republic would be classified as immigrants by this particular "focus group" That has been my thinking for many years and I've asked the question many times of the "send 'em back" brigade that do they think we should start with Ireland as they are the closest? Dumbfounded looks are the usual response. An immigrant is an immigrant. It doesn't matter where you're from as far as I'm concerned. If you spend most of your life in O'Donnell's, and only go out on St Patricks day, then you might have to ask yourself 'why am I here?, and not be surprised if locals also ask 'why are you here?'' On the other hand, if you have Manx and other friends, regularly socialise and work with lots of different people on the island, and most importantly - want to see many of the islands benefits continue - and also realise that some people coming here might change/damage things - there's no problem. If it feels like home it is home - so fight for it. Personally, all I want is for people to fight for the island and to protect it from those we don't want here, and from those that wish to change things so they are the same where they come from. This is happening now and we need to stop it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LoneWolf Posted May 30, 2006 Share Posted May 30, 2006 to protect it from those we don't want here But who are the"we" of whom you have obvious affiliations with ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gladys Posted May 30, 2006 Share Posted May 30, 2006 Agree wholeheartedly on the last sentiment Albert, I have posted elsewhere that I am very willing to share this Island with anyone else who will love it just as much as I do, no matter what hue, creed or nationality! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
simon Posted May 30, 2006 Share Posted May 30, 2006 Albert: When you talk about 'Manx Culture' - well specifically what do you mean? What is it that you want definitely to preserve? Could you list, for example, a few things which you think represent 'Manx Culture' and which you think might be under threat? I suppose I could be seen as 'racist' by my comments...but I would actually categorise myself as a 'Manx Culturist'. I have spent half my life on the island, a quarter in Europe and a quarter in the UK so my comments are based only on my own experiences. The main point I'm trying to get across here is that as a 'culturist', whether it's white Brits, economic migrant Poles or a bunch of Somalians trying to change the place I was brought up in, and brought my own kids up in, we have major lessons to learn from the way the UK handled immigration. The Isle Of Man is the size of a small British Town, and if we get it wrong we will change the place forever. However, these changes are happening now and need to be considered now - before it's too late. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Albert Tatlock Posted May 30, 2006 Share Posted May 30, 2006 to protect it from those we don't want here But who are the"we" of whom you have obvious affiliations with ? Interesting question LW. After a couple of beers (please excuse me) this evening my immediate answer would be: The 'we' are those that wish to change things for their own advantage - at the expense of what the vast majority of people who live here (and want to live here) actually think. This includes anyone with their own cultural objectives (isolationist immigration i.e. setting up their own separate areas), anyone who wishes to change the island for political advantage (e.g. the UK govt's relationship/dealings with the OECD/Europe at our expense), anyone with a desire to take away our independent rights, laws and thinking (even the TT), and anyone involved in local corruption. But I think you are right LW - the fundamental issue to be considered in any IOM immigration policy - is the 'we' and the direction we wish to go - though not to be forgotten is that we have the luxury of being an island with a population less than the size of a city like Preston and have the option to be selective - unlike the UK. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LoneWolf Posted May 30, 2006 Share Posted May 30, 2006 [but I think you are right LW - the fundamental issue to be considered in any IOM immigration policy - is the 'we' and the direction we wish to go - That's the nub of it Im afraid. People have different ideas and opinions on immigration. Defining the "we" would be a difficult task. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
simon Posted May 31, 2006 Share Posted May 31, 2006 to protect it from those we don't want here But who are the"we" of whom you have obvious affiliations with ? Interesting question LW. After a couple of beers (please excuse me) this evening my immediate answer would be: The 'we' are those that wish to change things for their own advantage - at the expense of what the vast majority of people who live here (and want to live here) actually think. This includes anyone with their own cultural objectives (isolationist immigration i.e. setting up their own separate areas), anyone who wishes to change the island for political advantage (e.g. the UK govt's relationship/dealings with the OECD/Europe at our expense), anyone with a desire to take away our independent rights, laws and thinking (even the TT), and anyone involved in local corruption. But I think you are right LW - the fundamental issue to be considered in any IOM immigration policy - is the 'we' and the direction we wish to go - though not to be forgotten is that we have the luxury of being an island with a population less than the size of a city like Preston and have the option to be selective - unlike the UK. That doesn't seem to make sense. You said that you wanted to protect the island from those that we don't want here. Then defined yourselves (the we) as those that wish to change things for their own advantage - at the expense of what the vast majority of people etc etc Surely the question was who are the "we" that you are representing, Albert? I'm totally neutral but struggling to make sense of this fuzzy logic Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Albert Tatlock Posted May 31, 2006 Share Posted May 31, 2006 I'm totally neutral but struggling to make sense of this fuzzy logic Culture is about collectiveness not just what I might think...and is a compex subject. If you expect an easy answer or a definitive list there isn't one - or at least not yet. That's why I feel we need to discuss this in far greater depth. People want to come here, and do come here, because we are not like the UK and elsewhere, and we offer many social, economic, and just plain friendly advantages for being here. These are the advantages we need to analyse, catorgorise - and maintain - the very same advantages that often make us locals not want to live in the UK and elsewhere. IMHO, it's how you turn many of these current 'intangible advantages' of the island into a 'tangible immigration' policy. I have my own opinions but I'm sorry it's too late at night for me to get into this in depth now. However, I will be back at the weekend (other than the odd post in between) and look forward to discussing it further. It is very nice to meet people who are interested in debating and quantifying this. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gladys Posted May 31, 2006 Share Posted May 31, 2006 I think I understand exactly where Albert is coming from, and it is more to do with fuzzy emotion than fuzzy logic. We, generally, enjoy a wonderful lifestyle here (and not to do with money or the cost of housing, electricity, gas, politics, etc. etc) but to do with an easy feeling of home, identity and security. Come and live here if you would like, but don't threaten those factors which make me very happy any time I have ever been away. And that includes every time I came back though almost half of my adult life living elsewhere. It cannot be rationalised, but that feeling exists. The best anaology I can come up with is; "Welcome, come on in, but leave your muddy boots at the door". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tempus Fugit Posted May 31, 2006 Share Posted May 31, 2006 but what happens if 100,000 more arrive and swamp the place, the authorities cannot provide housing, the schools and hospitals could not cope, (but all the immigrants, from wherever, currently seem to get put on the NHS dentists lists ) they can't even decide what to do with ONE asylum seeker just now !. ( I suppose the saving grace is the spco fare prices ) On a broader view, why do half the world seem to think the grass is greener elsewhere ? I'm sure there are better places than this windswept rock we call home ! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Archived
This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.