Gladys Posted June 4, 2006 Share Posted June 4, 2006 Point taken LW, but aren't you in a great position if you are on the supply side of two markets? (Rental and sale.) In terms of return, either side will suit, just as long as you get your required ROCE. As for where the demand comes from, I agree, the IOM does not exist in a separate universe, but for those here on the island it may as well. There is absolutely nothing wrong in reacting to market conditions, nor, I hasten to add, making a profit. That is the driver of all economic activity and, until we come up with a better way to structure an economy, that is what we must live with. But, I do maintain that there has been some serious market manipulation by developers to the detriment of very many people living here. A switched-on Government would take note of that and seek to address it by, for example, requiring as a condition of planning for the next major development some construction in partnership with the developer of shared ownership housing which could bridge the gap between eternal renting for those that want out and yet still produce a profit for the developer. There are many ways, with a bit of imagination, the situation could be redressed. But just this continual construction of dwellings for no immediate buyers has to be looked at when there is this "housing shortage'. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LoneWolf Posted June 5, 2006 Share Posted June 5, 2006 There are many ways, with a bit of imagination, the situation could be redressed. But just this continual construction of dwellings for no immediate buyers has to be looked at when there is this "housing shortage'. The market ..any market .. will never deliver solutions to social problems. Someone else on this forum [i remember reading it but cant remember who] once asked "who will win the market or the plan ?" [was it a girl from London?] My point is while I accept the operation of the housing market has caused social problems in the island it is unlikely the same mechanism will be willing to provide solutions to those problems. This surely is where the Manx Government comes in. [ The Plan !!] It is arguable that Govt policies have helped in creating the conditions where high demand for property has driven prices upwards. Even if that is not the case the Govt has a responsibility to ensure adequate housing is available for everyone. What are the options .. provision of affordable public owned housing for rental is one option and the Island has a shortage of such homes. Another option might entail a complete overhaul of housing policy with a view to making housing support portable or the Govt might even look at making some sort of shared equity scheme available. We cant blame market participants for taking advantage of market conditions. We can and perhaps should look to Government to help out if the market is causing genuine problems for the population. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gladys Posted June 5, 2006 Share Posted June 5, 2006 After a bit of to'ing and fro'ing, I think we have a concensus! The Government should get off its backside and find a solution. (BTW, shared equity was the phrase I was struggling for in my earlier post, thank you.) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
manxchatterbox Posted June 5, 2006 Share Posted June 5, 2006 If a developer keeps the appartment and rents it out for two years he can then sell it tax free can someone please explain how the above happens... also...why doesn't Govt introduce a speculation/gains tax which would mean that if a developer builds more property than he can sell within say 12 months of completion then he has to pay tax on any gain when it is eventually sold... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VinnieK Posted June 5, 2006 Share Posted June 5, 2006 why doesn't Govt introduce a speculation/gains tax which would mean that if a developer builds more property than he can sell within say 12 months of completion then he has to pay tax on any gain when it is eventually sold... How does making the building of houses even more risky from a financial perspective help solve the problem of housing provision? If cheap housing isn't being built it's because it's not financially attractive to do so; making more expensive property less attractive as an investment wont then coerce developers into concentrating on low profit mass housing on the Island - they'll probably just shift their investment to a more lucrative market elsewhere in the world. I'd prefer to see something along the lines of the shared equity schemes, or portable housing support that Lonewolf mentioned. Trying to dodge the market with the building of large state housing projects tends only to (along with other controversies and problems) make the situation worse in the long term by undermining house prices, whilst also reducing mobility and opportunity for individual families to find the best available home for their needs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
manxchatterbox Posted June 5, 2006 Share Posted June 5, 2006 doesn't every third house/apartment built in a development represent the profit? I'm all for equity shared schemes.... wouldn't a speculation/gains tax on properties not sold after 12 months stop developers building in anticipation of a market rather than building to satisfy a market... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hboy Posted June 5, 2006 Share Posted June 5, 2006 The IOM is a micro-market, (and that is the market I am talking about) which is buoyant at the moment. Or so they would have you believe. I don't see it when you read the property sold sections in the paper. Not much is going for the asking price. I think most agents think that we are idiots and buy into that BS. As for thousands coming here ... watch this space for the census results. They might be surprising. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LoneWolf Posted June 5, 2006 Share Posted June 5, 2006 Or so they would have you believe. I don't see it when you read the property sold sections in the paper. Not much is going for the asking price.I think most agents think that we are idiots and buy into that BS. As for thousands coming here ... watch this space for the census results. They might be surprising. Interesting developments in the property market include deposit trading prior to completion. Some deposits change hands numerous times before the property is anywhere near completion. Following completion there is not really any reason for property to be occupied. It can be traded numerous times without ever having anyone resident. An apartment is simply another commodity that can be bought and sold for a profit. People have made money doing this and presumably might continue to do so provided the value is still there. Those of us who live in the Island might think this is a poor state of affairs. The more so when there is an obvious housing problem. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
haX0red_Account Posted June 5, 2006 Share Posted June 5, 2006 What's also bad are the new flats being build on the quay in Peel - more expensive than luxury flats where I live in the Swiss Alps - and I doubt if the build quality in Peel will be anything like that here in Swizterland. Save your money - marry a rich farmer's daughter! hey spot on (and hboy's comment too) - saw an ad in the paper for those down in peel and it was sort of giving the impression buy quick- only 5 left out of eleven built, so only sold one every 3 months following a big sales nite at bar george. Hot cakes! That bottom flat is actually subterranean so you get a great view of crapping dogs and rockies stomping past! taking the piss or what Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
haX0red_Account Posted June 5, 2006 Share Posted June 5, 2006 Or so they would have you believe. I don't see it when you read the property sold sections in the paper. Not much is going for the asking price. I think most agents think that we are idiots and buy into that BS. As for thousands coming here ... watch this space for the census results. They might be surprising. Interesting developments in the property market include deposit trading prior to completion. Some deposits change hands numerous times before the property is anywhere near completion. Following completion there is not really any reason for property to be occupied. It can be traded numerous times without ever having anyone resident. An apartment is simply another commodity that can be bought and sold for a profit. People have made money doing this and presumably might continue to do so provided the value is still there. Those of us who live in the Island might think this is a poor state of affairs. The more so when there is an obvious housing problem. is deposit trading happening here? That's a new one to me. Are we saying that the same company that builds property is also acting as a landlord and renting those properties out on its own account, not as an arms-length property management exercise? cheers Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LoneWolf Posted June 5, 2006 Share Posted June 5, 2006 is deposit trading happening here? That's a new one to me. Yes it is Are we saying that the same company that builds property is also acting as a landlord and renting those properties out on its own account, not as an arms-length property management exercise?cheers I dont know about that and certainly I havent said anything of the sort. I have said that apartments, in particular, are traded just like any other commodity. Sometimes they may change hands numerous times without ever being occupied. I do not believe I have mentioned the developer as being a participant. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
haX0red_Account Posted June 5, 2006 Share Posted June 5, 2006 cheers 4 that LW; was just checking I was getting the gist of the thread straight in my head. I was genuinely surprised though at the deposit trading- that's usually a sign of a very overheated market when you see flipping like that which runs contrary to the purported downturn Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gladys Posted June 5, 2006 Share Posted June 5, 2006 Mmm! I'll hold my peace on that one! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LoneWolf Posted June 5, 2006 Share Posted June 5, 2006 cheers 4 that LW; was just checking I was getting the gist of the thread straight in my head. I was genuinely surprised though at the deposit trading- that's usually a sign of a very overheated market when you see flipping like that which runs contrary to the purported downturn Its just folk trying to make a turn on their money. Its a bit of a punt really as to where the value might out turn. Too risky for my blood though even if I had the cash to do it. Im not certain the market for this sort of product has softened but if it has .. there are lots of folk got their fingers burned ! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hboy Posted June 7, 2006 Share Posted June 7, 2006 [interesting developments in the property market include deposit trading prior to completion. Some deposits change hands numerous times before the property is anywhere near completion.Following completion there is not really any reason for property to be occupied. It can be traded numerous times without ever having anyone resident. An apartment is simply another commodity that can be bought and sold for a profit. People have made money doing this and presumably might continue to do so provided the value is still there. Those of us who live in the Island might think this is a poor state of affairs. The more so when there is an obvious housing problem. In Dubai maybe .. not here in recent history in my experience. There is of course another word for this - washing money. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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