Shortage Of Houses

[LoneWolf]

In Dubai maybe .. not here in recent history in my experience.

 

Sorry but you are wrong. The trades may not always take place in the IOM ..could be anywhere. But there has been quite a lively market in deposit trading on Isle of Man apartments in recent years

 

There is of course another word for this - washing money.

Rubbish. Its no different to trading any other commodity. Its called profit seeking and involves taking a punt on the outurn of the value.

We hear a lot about money laundering on the Island. I suspect the frequncy and scale is somewhat less than rumour would have it. Nevertheless I have never heard anyone claim legitimate trading activities amount to "money washing" before.

[hboy]

In Dubai maybe .. not here in recent history in my experience.

 

Sorry but you are wrong. The trades may not always take place in the IOM ..could be anywhere. But there has been quite a lively market in deposit trading on Isle of Man apartments in recent years

 

There is of course another word for this - washing money.

Rubbish. Its no different to trading any other commodity. Its called profit seeking and involves taking a punt on the outurn of the value.

We hear a lot about money laundering on the Island. I suspect the frequncy and scale is somewhat less than rumour would have it. Nevertheless I have never heard anyone claim legitimate trading activities amount to "money washing" before.

 

Well you've not dealt in the European property market thats all I can say.

 

The fact that the Spanish market went up almost 50% in the run up to the introduction of the Euro purely as a result of Irish & German cash buyers in no co-incidence in my book.

[simon]

In Dubai maybe .. not here in recent history in my experience.

 

Sorry but you are wrong. The trades may not always take place in the IOM ..could be anywhere. But there has been quite a lively market in deposit trading on Isle of Man apartments in recent years

 

There is of course another word for this - washing money.

Rubbish. Its no different to trading any other commodity. Its called profit seeking and involves taking a punt on the outurn of the value.

We hear a lot about money laundering on the Island. I suspect the frequncy and scale is somewhat less than rumour would have it. Nevertheless I have never heard anyone claim legitimate trading activities amount to "money washing" before.

 

Well you've not dealt in the European property market thats all I can say.

 

The fact that the Spanish market went up almost 50% in the run up to the introduction of the Euro purely as a result of Irish & German cash buyers in no co-incidence in my book.

 

Maybe I'm misunderstanding your point. But what you seem to be saying is that the increase in Spanish property prices was in some way related to people 'laundering' cash ahead of the introduction of the Euro.

 

Forgive me if I've misunderstood that point.

 

But if that is what you're saying then I think that you're probably wrong.

 

German and Irish (and British for that matter) money certainly did push up Spanish (and south western France) second home prices in the late 90s and this decade.

 

IMO - that related to the fact that many Germans had relatively free cash (at that time) compared with relatively very low Spanish prices.

 

Meanwhile Brits and the Irish (typically homeowners) were able to get relatively cheap second mortgages against their existing properties which had significantly increased in value (such that their existing properties could be borrowed against to buy second properties in places where property was relatively cheap).

 

And because the price of houses in the sun was clearly set to rise it was a relatively low risk investment.

 

With the Irish and the Brits, it was people borrowing against home properties which had suddenly very significantly increased in value.

 

I don't think that it had much to do with 'money laundering'. Unlike, perhaps, the places where Russians were buying.

[hboy]

In Dubai maybe .. not here in recent history in my experience.

 

Sorry but you are wrong. The trades may not always take place in the IOM ..could be anywhere. But there has been quite a lively market in deposit trading on Isle of Man apartments in recent years

 

There is of course another word for this - washing money.

Rubbish. Its no different to trading any other commodity. Its called profit seeking and involves taking a punt on the outurn of the value.

We hear a lot about money laundering on the Island. I suspect the frequncy and scale is somewhat less than rumour would have it. Nevertheless I have never heard anyone claim legitimate trading activities amount to "money washing" before.

 

Well you've not dealt in the European property market thats all I can say.

 

The fact that the Spanish market went up almost 50% in the run up to the introduction of the Euro purely as a result of Irish & German cash buyers in no co-incidence in my book.

 

Maybe I'm misunderstanding your point. But what you seem to be saying is that the increase in Spanish property prices was in some way related to people 'laundering' cash ahead of the introduction of the Euro.

 

Forgive me if I've misunderstood that point.

 

But if that is what you're saying then I think that you're probably wrong.

 

German and Irish (and British for that matter) money certainly did push up Spanish (and south western France) second home prices in the late 90s and this decade.

 

IMO - that related to the fact that many Germans had relatively free cash (at that time) compared with relatively very low Spanish prices.

 

Meanwhile Brits and the Irish (typically homeowners) were able to get relatively cheap second mortgages against their existing properties which had significantly increased in value (such that their existing properties could be borrowed against to buy second properties in places where property was relatively cheap).

 

And because the price of houses in the sun was clearly set to rise it was a relatively low risk investment.

 

With the Irish and the Brits, it was people borrowing against home properties which had suddenly very significantly increased in value.

 

I don't think that it had much to do with 'money laundering'. Unlike, perhaps, the places where Russians were buying.

 

Yes that is exactly what I am saying, and I know it to be a known fact amongst developers down there. There were two prices paid, the one that went through the books and the cash "top up". It was the second phase that were Brits and Irish borrowing against UK equity - borrowed money comes from the mugs that pile in after everyone else has made a killing on cash purchasers.

 

By the time the remortgage money comes in the cash buyers have buggered off and banked legilimate property gains.

 

Quit being naive, and don't associate this stuff with the "Russians" at the exclusion of any other nationality.

[LoneWolf]

Well you've not dealt in the European property market thats all I can say.

No no no ... Its nothing to do with what you might understand as "the property market".

This is people trading deposits to make a turn. Its just something with a perceived value at the out turn.

Anything with a value is likely to be traded. People trade weather for god's sake why not deposits ?

Nothing to do with wanting to buy a property. Certainly nothing to do with people wanting to buy a property for occupation or to rent. Simply people wanting to make a profit by buying and selling "money".

This changes as the commodity comes near to completion. There is, in effect, a "gate closure" for such activities if the current holder doesnt want to risk being caught in possession.

He would then have to enter what you are calling the property market to dispose of his unwanted asset and hopefully make a turn or at least mitigate his losses.

The fact that the Spanish market went up almost 50% in the run up to the introduction of the Euro purely as a result of Irish & German cash buyers in no co-incidence in my book.

I dont really think this is in any way related to what I have rattling on about but even if it was I still cant see how it amounts to money laundering.

[hboy]

No no no ... Its nothing to do with what you might understand as "the property market".

This is people trading deposits to make a turn. Its just something with a perceived value at the out turn.

Anything with a value is likely to be traded. People trade weather for god's sake why not deposits ?

Nothing to do with wanting to buy a property.

 

I understand exactly what you are saying

 

BUT I have to say that any "scheme" that promises near instant high returns through the short term holding of long term assets that are sold on quickly, represents a higher likelihood of abuse by people seeking to cleanse funds.

 

I am also saying that usually the people who end up holding these assets end up getting shafted by paying over the odds and then having to hold very long term to break even.

 

I didn't say it was money laundering, or that the IOM was at risk, it was merely a statement of fact that many property based schemes in other countries have been tainted with various suspicions.

 

There is a secondary market in most assets, but just because a secondary market exists does not mean that its not being abused by the people who are creating that market in the first place.

[ccsnet]

Cant say much on prices over there but certainly over here prices have risen to where you can't as a rule by a decent house. I was lucky I got in just in time...

 

For example I have a 3 bed detached newish Barrets - recently a couple of houses have sold on my street... the one oppersite ( which had been rented out for some time before ) went for nearly £45k more than I bough mine for.... and thats a 2 bedroom terrece with hardly any garden.

 

Yes I agree companys are having a punt..... morally its wrong but in reallity they are out to make money. I for one thing its some thing that is affecting most of the EU which would not be too bad except employers have been behind inflation with pay rises ( ie profit again ) making the gap even harder to bridge.

 

Terran

[LoneWolf]

BUT I have to say that any "scheme" that promises near instant high returns through the short term holding of long term assets that are sold on quickly, represents a higher likelihood of abuse by people seeking to

cleanse funds.

 

The basis is high levels of churn. This always has the effect of supporting prices at the margins. profits are only there for taking at the margins.

 

I am also saying that usually the people who end up holding these assets end up getting shafted by paying over the odds and then having to hold very long term to break even.

 

Now there is a rule of thumb for everyone ..dont get caught long !!

[Slim]

also...why doesn't Govt introduce a speculation/gains tax which would mean that if a developer builds more property than he can sell within say 12 months of completion then he has to pay tax on any gain when it is eventually sold...

 

They do.

[hboy]

Now there is a rule of thumb for everyone ..dont get caught long !!

 

I think thats sound advice for anyone whose bought here in the last 4 years. Prices have been forced up by a variety of tactics and its the poor local resident that carries the can long term - these are not people taking a punt but people who have to pay the price speculators ask for property they simply want to live in because they can't afford to rent the houses the same speculators also own.

 

Its a win win situation for "those who play the margins"

 

Just don't end up owning the property you bought in the first place.