manxchatterbox Posted June 29, 2006 Share Posted June 29, 2006 The IOM pays money to Westminster for defence etc so with this from a recent House of Commons Hansard why should we display the Union Flag at our forthcoming Tynwald Ceremony?? Flags Andrew Rosindell: To ask the Secretary of State for Culture, Media and Sport what criteria the Government used in deciding not to display the flag of (a) Norfolk Island, (B) the British Antarctic Territory, © South Georgia and the South Sandwich Islands, (d) the Turks and Caicos Islands, (e) Montserrat, (f) Bermuda, (g) Anguilla, (h) the Cayman Islands and (i) the British Virgin Islands at this year's Trooping the Colour. Mr. Lammy: Only the flags of the Commonwealth countries are flown at Trooping of the Colour. The countries listed above are Overseas Territories which are not member states of the Commonwealth. Andrew Rosindell: To ask the Secretary of State for Culture, Media and Sport what criteria the Government used in deciding not to display the flag of (a) the Isle of Man and (B) Guernsey at this year's Trooping the Colour. Mr. Lammy: Only the flags of the Commonwealth Countries are flown at Trooping of the Colour. The Bailiwick of Guernsey, and the Isle of Man are Crown dependencies and are not member states of the Commonwealth. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ade Posted June 29, 2006 Share Posted June 29, 2006 I reckon the answer's in your question / statement. and the Isle of Man are Crown dependencies I guess that means in a sense we are dependant on the Crown. Which is maybe why we display a Union flag at state ceremonies. Possibly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mollag Posted June 29, 2006 Share Posted June 29, 2006 I honestly dont understand this sudden slavish devotion to flags, its getting as bad as the yanks, who are near as bad as pre war germany in their slobbering and blubbering over pennants. Flags are flags, they are not that important, if they are not at the trooping of the colour, so what?, who gives a shit and why?. Effing mystery to me Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Freggyragh Posted June 29, 2006 Share Posted June 29, 2006 The Union Flag should be flown as a tribute to Manx men and women who have fought in the British armed forces. Tynwald Day is not a suitable occasion, November 11th is. What flags the UK and the Queen of England choose to fly is irrelevent. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ripsaw Posted June 30, 2006 Share Posted June 30, 2006 On the subject of flags... (Edited Quote) A football fan found himself in trouble with the German authorities for flying the flag for the Island during the World Cup... ...But when one of the group hung the Manx flag up at a stadium ahead of a match, they attracted some unwanted attention... ...Despite agreeing to take it down, he was handcuffed and taken away for questioning and the flag was confiscated... Full Article:IOM Online Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Albert Tatlock Posted June 30, 2006 Share Posted June 30, 2006 HERE WE GO AGAIN.... FLAGS FLAGS FLAGS... Leave it alone... We need the UK... simple as I agree, without 'U' and 'K' so many phrases would just lose their meaning wouldn't they. As for Manx people and Manx flags being arrested and confiscated, this has happended before (several incidents reported on this forum)...the IOM government should really start to write and complain to these 'authorities' carrying out what are in effect blasphemous acts...and desecrating the Manx flag. For starters send a Manx flag and a copy of a letter of complaint to every German police station. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iom_cb Posted June 30, 2006 Share Posted June 30, 2006 i think that not to fly the union jack would be to deny and important part of the legal status of the isle of man. the Isle of Man is a crown dependency.....dependant upon the United Kingdom who are responsible for defense and foriegn affairs. With this being the case I think that the Union Jack is appropriate at Tynwald Day when we celebrate the independance that the island has....but just remember this independance derives from westminster. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Amadeus Posted June 30, 2006 Share Posted June 30, 2006 For starters send a Manx flag and a copy of a letter of complaint to every German police station. Er..that sounds a bit much and rather expensive, given the number of police stations in ze Heimatland. Wouldn't it make more sense to send one to Home Affairs (or Innenministerium, as it's called)? As to the incident in the stadium: pretty stupid, I agree, but I think that most of the stewards are volunteers for the event (the every-greedy FIFA hardly pays any of them a penny for what they do) that were literally recruited of the streets - must have gotten a bunch of numbnuts on that occasion - sad Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Old Git Posted June 30, 2006 Share Posted June 30, 2006 the Isle of Man is a crown dependency.....dependant upon the United Kingdom who are responsible for defense and foriegn affairs. We're probably dependant on the Crown rather than the UK per se, it's just that Queen Elizabeth II makes use of her ministers to do the work I wonder what would happen is she went to live in Canada or Australia? Do we still make a financial contribution for our defense? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chinahand Posted June 30, 2006 Share Posted June 30, 2006 Found a web site which muddies the waters: In my mind, as we are a crown dependency and so our allegence is to the Queen, not the UK we should be flying the royal standard. This page shows the Royal Standard and also shows the personal flag of the Queen. It then shows how the Royal flag of the queen has been amalgamated with the emblem of various common wealth countries: check out Canada's! However in the section on the Isle of Man it shows the Governor's flag which is distinctly Union Jack based! So what should they be flying ... F-Knows and I doubt if they know either ... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheScope Posted June 30, 2006 Share Posted June 30, 2006 I honestly dont understand this sudden slavish devotion to flags, its getting as bad as the yanks, who are near as bad as pre war germany in their slobbering and blubbering over pennants. Flags are flags, they are not that important, if they are not at the trooping of the colour, so what?, who gives a shit and why?. Effing mystery to me As in so many circumstances, Bill Hicks said it best.. "Hey, buddy! My daddy died for that flag!" "Really? I bought mine. They sell 'em in K-Mart..." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mollag Posted June 30, 2006 Share Posted June 30, 2006 I honestly dont understand this sudden slavish devotion to flags, its getting as bad as the yanks, who are near as bad as pre war germany in their slobbering and blubbering over pennants. Flags are flags, they are not that important, if they are not at the trooping of the colour, so what?, who gives a shit and why?. Effing mystery to me As in so many circumstances, Bill Hicks said it best.. "Hey, buddy! My daddy died for that flag!" "Really? I bought mine. They sell 'em in K-Mart..." No shit with the Hicks guy B) Someone really clever once said that the flag was the last resort of the rogue, or summat like that Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chinahand Posted June 30, 2006 Share Posted June 30, 2006 No shit with the Hicks guy B) Someone really clever once said that the flag was the last resort of the rogue, or summat like that It was Samuel Johnson who stated that patriotism is the last resort of a scoundrel But I like Ambrose Bierce's retort in his Devil's Dictionary: “In Dr. Johnson’s famous dictionary patriotism is defined as the last resort of a scoundrel. With all due respect to an enlightened but inferior lexicographer, I beg to submit that it is the first.” I highly recommend the Devil's Dictionary for its slightly slanted take on the world. For Example: Opiate: An unlocked door in the prison of Identity. It leads into the jail yard. or Russian: A person with a Caucasian body and a Mongolian soul. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Heathen Posted June 30, 2006 Share Posted June 30, 2006 HERE WE GO AGAIN.... FLAGS FLAGS FLAGS... Leave it alone... We need the UK... simple as I agree, without 'U' and 'K' so many phrases would just lose their meaning wouldn't they. As for Manx people and Manx flags being arrested and confiscated, this has happended before (several incidents reported on this forum)...the IOM government should really start to write and complain to these 'authorities' carrying out what are in effect blasphemous acts...and desecrating the Manx flag. For starters send a Manx flag and a copy of a letter of complaint to every German police station. Sigh. It's not really their fault is it? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iom_cb Posted July 1, 2006 Share Posted July 1, 2006 We're probably dependant on the Crown rather than the UK per se, we are in reality dependant on the United Kingdom....the crown doesn't sent the food and other goods that we enjoy....it is the United Kingdom government that controls defence and the United Kingdoms Government department of Constitutional Affairs that deals with the island. I get what you're saying that the crown is constitutionally the top tier....but this is true for the United Kingdom Government that only rules by invitation of the crown. Alot of these things are symbolic but in reality the UK Government run the show. Do we still make a financial contribution for our defense? I believe we still do....which seems perfectly fair to me. The one little gripe I have with the Manx independance thing is that it forfeits a voice in foreign affairs....ie we had no say in the Iraq War. I think we need a radical overhaul of Westminster now that devolution is in full swing which should take into account the Isle of Man. For example I think that Scottish MPs should no longer be able to vote on issues that only affect England and Wales (ie. Top-Up fees). Why not have a special Isle of Man MP in parliament with the right to a vote in foreign affairs and defence. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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