Israel

[P.K.]

Rog in the BNP. Now that is funny.

 

Think I care if someone in as much denial as you are takes me seriously or not? Dream on....

 

I'm now sure the most prejudiced poster on here is Tugger.

[magneto]

hmmmmm

 

I seeeeeeee

[Lovenotfear]

And who are the terrorists again?

http://news.bbc.co.uk/nolavconsole/ifs_new..._rm_5201268.stm

[Rog]

And who are the terrorists again?

http://news.bbc.co.uk/nolavconsole/ifs_new..._rm_5201268.stm

 

And who are the terrorists again?

 

Hezbollah. And hammas.

 

It's --- sort of --- interesting -- how the spelling of word 'hesbollah' has become the accepted form. The arabic, pronounced hiz-b'allah when translated comes out as near as dammit to 'party of allah'

[simon]

Bob's Blog

[simon]

Lebanese Political Journal

[Rog]

Hezbollah, or ‘hiz-b’allah’ as I prefer, that being a closer translation from the arabic, is bound irrevocably to hammas and hammas IS a terrorist organisation dedicated to the utter destruction of Israel ------ and it has been democratically elected by the "palestinians".

 

They knew full well who and what they were electing, the hammas charter is well known and widely read, they therefore have democratically elected to walk away from any possibility of peace.

 

So be it.

 

The hammas charter? Here is a bona fide English translation from an unimpeachable source.

 

And they mean every bloody word that is written.

 

http://www.yale.edu/lawweb/avalon/mideast/hamas.htm

 

Here’s some choice snippets.

 

The Covenant of the Islamic Resistance Movement, 18 August 1988

 

Preamble

 

"Israel will exist and will continue to exist until Islam will obliterate it, just as it obliterated others before it" (The Martyr, Imam Hassan al-Banna, of blessed memory).

 

"The Islamic world is on fire. Each of us should pour some water, no matter how little, to extinguish whatever one can without waiting for the others." (Sheikh Amjad al-Zahawi, of blessed memory).

 

Introduction

 

This Covenant of the Islamic Resistance Movement (Hamas), clarifies its picture, reveals its identity, outlines its stand, explains its aims, speaks about its hopes, and calls for its support, adoption and joining its ranks.

 

Our struggle against the Jews is very great and very serious. It needs all sincere efforts. It is a step that inevitably should be followed by other steps. The Movement is but one squadron that should be supported by more and more squadrons from this vast Arab and Islamic world, until the enemy is vanquished and Allah's victory is realised.

 

Hamas slogan

 

Allah is its target, the Prophet is its model, the Koran its constitution: Jihad is its path and death for the sake of Allah is the loftiest of its wishes.

 

Peace process

 

Initiatives, and so-called peaceful solutions and international conferences, are in contradiction to the principles of the Islamic Resistance Movement.

 

Abusing any part of Palestine is abuse directed against part of religion. Nationalism of the Islamic Resistance Movement is part of its religion. Its members have been fed on that. For the sake of hoisting the banner of Allah over their homeland they fight. (Article 13)

 

Duty to fight

 

It is necessary to instill the spirit of jihad (holy war) in the heart of the nation so that they would confront the enemies and join the ranks of the fighters.

 

It is necessary that scientists, educators and teachers, information and media people, as well as the educated masses, especially the youth and sheikhs of the Islamic movements, should take part in the operation of awakening (the masses).

 

It is necessary to instill in the minds of the Muslim generations that the Palestinian problem is a religious problem, and should be dealt with on this basis. (Article 15)

 

On women

 

Woman in the home of the fighting family, whether she is a mother or a sister, plays the most important role in looking after the family, rearing the children and embuing them with moral values and thoughts derived from Islam.

 

She has to teach them to perform the religious duties in preparation for the role of fighting awaiting them. That is why it is necessary to pay great attention to schools and the curriculum followed in educating Muslim girls, so that they would grow up to be good mothers, aware of their role in the battle of liberation. (Article 1

 

Israel

 

Our enemy relies on the methods of collective punishment. He has deprived people of their homeland and properties, pursued them in their places of exile and gathering, breaking bones, shooting at women, children and old people, with or without a reason...

 

In their Nazi treatment, the Jews made no exception for women or children. Their policy of striking fear in the heart is meant for all. They attack people where their breadwinning is concerned, extorting their money and threatening their honour. They deal with people as if they were the worst war criminals. Deportation from the homeland is a kind of murder. (Article 20)

 

Allies of Israel

 

For a long time, the enemies have been planning, skillfully and with precision, for the achievement of what they have attained.... With their money, they took control of the world media, news agencies, the press, publishing houses, broadcasting stations, and others. With their money they stirred revolutions in various parts of the world...

 

They were behind the French Revolution, the Communist revolution and most of the revolutions we heard and hear about, here and there.

 

With their money they formed secret societies, such as Freemasons, Rotary Clubs, the Lions and others in different parts of the world for the purpose of sabotaging societies and achieving Zionist interests. (Article 22)

 

That, and more, is what the "palestinians" have democratically voted for.

 

Now, is it really a coincidence that the Gaza ramp-up in attacks against Israel to be closely followed by the totally unprovoked attack by hesballah has taken the worlds gaze away from the Iranians who continue towards making The Bomb?

[joeyconcrete]

Now, is it really a coincidence that the Gaza ramp-up in attacks against Israel to be closely followed by the totally unprovoked attack by hesballah has taken the worlds gaze away from the Iranians who continue towards making The Bomb?

 

Or, another theory, which is the one the FT followed was;

 

The timing and scale of its attack suggest it was partly intended to reduce the pressure on Palestinians by forcing Israel to fight on two fronts simultaneously

 

I know this was mentioned earlier, but here is the transcript.

 

http://www.zmag.org/content/showarticle.cfm?ItemID=10577

 

Some notable points;

 

the veto of the UN resolution is standard. That goes back decades. The U.S. has virtually alone been blocking the possibility of diplomatic settlement, censure of Israeli crimes and atrocities. When Israel invaded Lebanon in 1982, the US vetoed several resolutions right away, calling for an end to the fighting and so on, and that was a hideous invasion. And this continues through every administration. So I presume it will continue at the G8 meetings.

 

And specifically;

http://www.krysstal.com/democracy_whyusa03.html

[Rog]

Whatever!

 

Dosn't matter, we're doing GOOD!

[joeyconcrete]

Fair enough. I think a lot of people in the world may disagree. I know I do. I also know that my opinion of Israel has gone down hill too following recent events. `Military offshoot of the USA` isn't too far from the truth.

[Rog]

Fair enough. I think a lot of people in the world may disagree. I know I do. I also know that my opinion of Israel has gone down hill too following recent events. `Military offshoot of the USA` isn't too far from the truth.

 

My God, the propaganda's worked well.

 

It's taken all that the US could do to hold Israel BACK on the past.

 

Especially during Gulf War 1 and 2 not to mention stopping Israel from taking out the Iranian nuclear facility - a BIG mistake on the US's part in my opinion.

[joeyconcrete]

My God, the propaganda's worked well.

 

Bollocks. Religion and propaganda aside - I'll draw my own conclusions. I read both sides of the story, the pro-Palestine one, and your one at the other end of the spectrum. And like I said. I don't particularly like the way Israel are going about things, an opinion which a lot of the international community, including the UN (asides from the US) tend to agree with. But of course, they're obviously both wrong and ill informed too.

[Lonan3]

I'm now sure the most prejudiced poster on here is Tugger.

 

No... it's still Rog (although you're definitely pushing him at times).

[Jake]

I understand why Israel has gone to war and I sympathise to a degree..... this is an inevitable consequence of war though and maybe both sides should take note of this link and realise that war only kills people.... not the idea behind it.

 

 

http://www.fromisraeltolebanon.info/

[Chinahand]

It looks like the UK government is trying to have it both ways: not calling for an immediate ceasefire, but also criticizing Israel for using disproportional force.

 

Blair rejects Ceasefire Call

 

Tony Blair has refused to call for an immediate ceasefire in Lebanon. He said Hizbollah guerrillas should release the two captured Israeli soldiers and stop firing rockets into northern Israel.

 

Mr Blair said: "Of course it is important that the response of Israel is proportionate and it does its best to minimise civilian casualties.

 

"But I have to say this would stop now if the soldiers that were kidnapped wrongly, when Hizbollah crossed the United Nations blue line, were released.

 

"It would stop now if the rockets stopped coming into Haifa. If those two things happened I would be the first person out there telling Israel to stop these things."

 

UK Minister criticizes Israel

 

Foreign Office minister Kim Howells said Israel had not carried out "surgical strikes" and attacking the Lebanese nation was not the answer.

 

Speaking in Beirut, Mr Howells said: "I very much hope that the Americans understand what's happening to Lebanon.

 

"The destruction of the infrastructure, the death of so many children and so many people. These have not been surgical strikes.

 

"And it's very very difficult I think to understand the kind of military tactics that have been used.

 

"You know, if they're chasing Hezbollah, then go for Hezbollah. You don't go for the entire Lebanese nation."

 

In some ways this is probably a realistic strategy. Without a more permanent solution any ceasefire will soon break down, but Israel's solution doesn't look likely to create a long term peace, so its tactics are being criticized even when there is agreement on its long term goal.

 

Sounds about right to me.