Israel

[Albert Tatlock]

Furthermore we need to grasp an understanding of how Arab propoganda has taken such a hold in the Western world.

I don't know Lonewolf - what do you think?

 

It could be something to do with the carnage that joe public has seen day in and day out on the televison news for the past 3 years. There again it might be something to do with the 1 million people that demonstrated (beforehand) against the Iraq war in London, and that the proportion of people thinking the US and Britain were right to take military action against Iraq is 33% with 57% thinking it was wrong. It could be because people think Bush and Blair lied about WMD, and they went in on a false pretext and have now destabilised the whole region. It might be something to do with Britain and the US attempting to dehumanise an entire race and not even bothering to count foreign dead bodies (or even their own who are seriously injured). It could be because people think that US and UK foreign policy is making an already bad situation spiral out of control, and might be setting up major problems especially if some middle eastern states have been encouraged to develop nukes because they fear attack. It might be that the US has supplied Israel with so much weaponary that it has removed any incentive for her to sit down at the negotiation table. It could also be that Bush and Blair have underestimated their own population's abilities to think for themselves.

 

Other than that, I'm as puzzled as you are!

[Rog]

Just above I was saying there was little evidence that Israel was recklessly attacking civilian targets.

 

Now I'm not so sure.

 

You'd think attacking an International Red Cross Ambulance would be about the limit. But what about attacking two of them ... Both with their blue flashing lights on and with spotlights shining on their red cross signs.

 

Check out BBC Video

 

Or Sydney Morning Hearald report

 

FFS even compared to the Yanks taking out a couple of British Warriors Armoured Vehicles this looks like ... how should I put it ... a lack of care in target selection, gross negligence, a basic dereliction of duty ... a war crime?

 

Perhaps if ambulances had not been frequently - let us be charitable and say commandeered - in the past and then used to transport gunmen there might be a basis for questioning the hit on a pair of ambulances leaving an area where there had been fighting and from which the fighting had suddenly ceased ---.

 

Perhaps then ambulances leaving a place of fighting might not arouse suspicion that past events have shown is very well founded.

[Rog]

People still make statements about how Israel should negotiate a peaceful relationship with the palests and other assorted arab groups.

 

Again and again I read and hear people making these calls.

 

Why is it so impossible for people to grasp that the palests, especially evident following their election of hammas don’t want to negotiate peaceful coexistence?

 

First off hammas is founded on a holy and unbreakable oath to destroy Israel and secondly no moslem can accept the presence of Israel as the land on which Eretz Israel is founded is seen by them as being a “waaf”, a land that is and will for ever be islamic.

 

On that basis we can never negotiate peace with the palests until they get a non-hammas government, and secondly we can never live in any other state than Dar al-Sulh (nation of treaty) or Dar al-‘Amn (nation of security), in both cases unlikely as an all-time solution as they woll continue to see our land as “waaf”.

[Albert Tatlock]

Perhaps if ambulances had not been frequently - let us be charitable and say commandeered - in the past and then used to transport gunmen there might be a basis for questioning the hit on a pair of ambulances leaving an area where there had been fighting and from which the fighting had suddenly ceased ---.

 

Perhaps then ambulances leaving a place of fighting might not arouse suspicion that past events have shown is very well founded.

Two such wrongs don't make a right, they make two war crimes. If a Red Cross ambulance is attacked by an Israeli fighter that makes one war crime. If a guerilla uses an ambulance for war purposes that makes one war crime. All such incidents should be investigated and those caught using or attacking ambulances held to account. (I can't believe I am having to spell this out in this day and age).

 

Rog, you are nothing but an inhumane idiot, an advocate for criminality and murder. You should be ashamed of yourself. If one Rog is an idiot would you have all people called Rog killed? Have you not learned a thing from your own people's history?

[Rog]

Perhaps if ambulances had not been frequently - let us be charitable and say commandeered - in the past and then used to transport gunmen there might be a basis for questioning the hit on a pair of ambulances leaving an area where there had been fighting and from which the fighting had suddenly ceased ---.

 

Perhaps then ambulances leaving a place of fighting might not arouse suspicion that past events have shown is very well founded.

Two such wrongs don't make a right, they make two war crimes. If a Red Cross ambulance is attacked by an Israeli fighter that makes one war crime. If a guerilla uses an ambulance for war purposes that makes one war crime. All such incidents should be investigated and those caught using or attacking ambulances held to account. (I can't believe I am having to spell this out in this day and age).

 

Rog, you are nothing but an inhumane idiot, an advocate for criminality and murder. You should be ashamed of yourself. If one Rog is an idiot would you have all people called Rog killed? Have you not learned a thing from your own people's history?

 

It's amazing how so many people who know nothing beyond what they see on the news media know so much about what is taking place. Not.

[Albert Tatlock]

It's amazing how so many people who know nothing beyond what they see on the news media know so much about what is taking place. Not.

You don't know who I am or what I have experienced in the past - so IMHO I think you should wind your neck in.

[Rog]

It's amazing how so many people who know nothing beyond what they see on the news media know so much about what is taking place. Not.

You don't know who I am or what I have experienced in the past - so IMHO I think you should wind your neck in.

 

The irony is that the same applies in relation to my first hand knowledge about matters Israeli past and more to the point here, present.

[Albert Tatlock]

It's amazing how so many people who know nothing beyond what they see on the news media know so much about what is taking place. Not.

You don't know who I am or what I have experienced in the past - so IMHO I think you should wind your neck in.

 

The irony is that the same applies in relation to my first hand knowledge about matters Israeli past and more to the point here, present.

The very big difference Rog, is that your posts demonstrate that you have learned nothing from your experience and your selective knowledge, and have become no more than a gung-ho bitter Neanderthal, with no respect for human rights, human life or international law. Your attitude is the problem Rog, not the solution.

[Lonan3]

The very big difference Rog, is that your posts demonstrate that you have learned nothing from your experience and your selective knowledge, and have become no more than a gung-ho bitter Neanderthal, with no respect for human rights, human life or international law. Your attitude is the problem Rog, not the solution.

 

There is no need to insult Neanderthals like that!

You should know that you're wasting your time, Albert. Trying to remove the kind of tunnel vision that Rog has about Israel is impossible. He will never get round to relating his particular form of bigotry to any other, nor will ever be willing to see that it is always evil, no matter what it's apologia might be.

[The Old Git]

but now that Mr Moffatt has told all Israeli ambassadors what to do, the fighting will surely end immediately.

 

Seeing as Moffatt is often banging on about the need to be proactive rather than reactive I'd have been more impressed if he'd written to the Lebanonese a while back about them letting Hezbollah fire rockets into Israel from Lebanon and how it might not be such a good idea.

[lectro]

Perhaps if ambulances had not been frequently - let us be charitable and say commandeered - in the past and then used to transport gunmen there might be a basis for questioning the hit on a pair of ambulances leaving an area where there had been fighting and from which the fighting had suddenly ceased ---.

 

Perhaps then ambulances leaving a place of fighting might not arouse suspicion that past events have shown is very well founded.

Two such wrongs don't make a right, they make two war crimes. If a Red Cross ambulance is attacked by an Israeli fighter that makes one war crime. If a guerilla uses an ambulance for war purposes that makes one war crime. All such incidents should be investigated and those caught using or attacking ambulances held to account. (I can't believe I am having to spell this out in this day and age).

 

Rog, you are nothing but an inhumane idiot, an advocate for criminality and murder. You should be ashamed of yourself. If one Rog is an idiot would you have all people called Rog killed? Have you not learned a thing from your own people's history?

 

It's amazing how so many people who know nothing beyond what they see on the news media know so much about what is taking place. Not.

 

I've just realised you're right all along and BBC NEWS (biased Zionist hating bastards), INDYMEDIA (amatuers), HUMAN RIGHTS WATCH (anti-semetic) are all wrong. You should go out there and report from the frontline. We'll all chip in the airfare.

 

At best you're a bad troll.

[Rog]

I've just realised you're right all along and BBC NEWS (biased Zionist hating bastards), INDYMEDIA (amatuers), HUMAN RIGHTS WATCH (anti-semetic) are all wrong. You should go out there and report from the frontline. We'll all chip in the airfare.

 

At best you're a bad troll.

 

Where were human rights watch when the palests were sending in their kids as homicide bombers to blow up Israeli kids on school busses?

 

Or were firing crude but effective rockets into civilian populations simply to indiscriminately kill and maim.

 

Or throwing rocks from the al-asqua mosque grounds onto devout Jews praying at The Western Wall?

 

Or the continued outbreaks of random violence against Israeli citizens just going about their daily business?

 

Where are Human Rights Watch in condemning the hez-b’allah filth for using civilians as human shields?

 

This is in part pay-back time against an armed terrorist force. It has taken a long time in coming and the hope was that it would not be needed despite the obvious build up of weaponry and terrorist infrastructure in The Lebanon, not to mention infiltration of the Lebanese government and the coercion of many of the citizens over the last few years, but come it has.

 

I sincerely hope and trust it won’t cease until hez-b’allah has been utterly crushed to the point that it no longer represents a threat to anybody, least of the REAL Lebanese people who have been as much victim as most.

[Rog]

The very big difference Rog, is that your posts demonstrate that you have learned nothing from your experience and your selective knowledge, and have become no more than a gung-ho bitter Neanderthal, with no respect for human rights, human life or international law. Your attitude is the problem Rog, not the solution.

 

When faced with an enemy whoo himself has no respect for human rights, human life or international law then unless you're as single minded as he is - and more so - then you're going to lose.

 

Remember, never take a knife to a knife fight. Take a gun.

[Lovenotfear]

 

The very big difference Rog, is that your posts demonstrate that you have learned nothing from your experience and your selective knowledge, and have become no more than a gung-ho bitter Neanderthal, with no respect for human rights, human life or international law. Your attitude is the problem Rog, not the solution.

 

When faced with an enemy whoo himself has no respect for human rights, human life or international law then unless you're as single minded as he is - and more so - then you're going to lose.

 

Remember, never take a knife to a knife fight. Take a gun.

 

Better still, dont turn up full stop!

[P.K.]

Furthermore we need to grasp an understanding of how Arab propoganda has taken such a hold in the Western world.

I don't know Lonewolf - what do you think?

 

It could be something to do with the carnage that joe public has seen day in and day out on the televison news for the past 3 years. There again it might be something to do with the 1 million people that demonstrated (beforehand) against the Iraq war in London, and that the proportion of people thinking the US and Britain were right to take military action against Iraq is 33% with 57% thinking it was wrong. It could be because people think Bush and Blair lied about WMD, and they went in on a false pretext and have now destabilised the whole region.

Mr Tatlock. Are you seriously suggesting that Iraq didn't use WMD against the Iranians and the Kurds in Hallabja? Dear me, which planet are you on?

Just above I was saying there was little evidence that Israel was recklessly attacking civilian targets.

 

Now I'm not so sure.

 

You'd think attacking an International Red Cross Ambulance would be about the limit. But what about attacking two of them ... Both with their blue flashing lights on and with spotlights shining on their red cross signs.

FFS even compared to the Yanks taking out a couple of British Warriors Armoured Vehicles this looks like ... how should I put it ... a lack of care in target selection, gross negligence, a basic dereliction of duty ... a war crime?

I can't wait to hear the justification for this one...

Hardly a surprise I think.

It is meant to be a universally recognised symbol of neutrality and a guaranteed passage of protection for the victims of armed conflict.

But at least 10 Lebanese ambulances bearing the emblem of the international red cross have instead become targets in Israeli air strikes that have killed more than a dozen civilian passengers being transported to hospitals in the south of the country. Hospital officials in southern Lebanon have accused Israel of violating the Geneva convention by failing to respect the red cross symbol by attacking ambulances on at least 10 occasions in the two-week war that has claimed at least 12 more fire trucks and civil defence vehicles travelling between Tyre and the Israeli border.

 

The Israeli Defence Force has not commented about its targeting of ambulances, but in the past has said militants in the West Bank and Gaza had used them to transport weapons and fighters, in contravention of laws governing armed conflict.

 

The UN yesterday stopped short of accusing Hezbollah of using ambulances as transport vehicles. However, it suggested that the cowardly tactic of blending in with civilians had contributed to the terrible toll taken on communities in the south, where most of the 391 Lebanese have been killed.

 

"Consistently, from the Hezbollah heartland, my message was that Hezbollah must stop this cowardly blending ... among women and children," UN humanitarian affairs chief Jan Egeland said.

 

"I heard they were proud because they lost very few fighters and that it was the civilians bearing the brunt of this. I don't think anyone should be proud of having many more children and women dead than armed men."

Sounds about par for the course...