The Old Git Posted July 26, 2006 Share Posted July 26, 2006 Saudi Arabia's King Abdullah, a normally placid US ally, warned that "if the option of peace fails as a result of Israeli arrogance I think Hizbollah wasn't expecting Israel to react the way it did Agree, but isn't there an amount of arrogance on Hizbollah's part in thinking they are free to rocket Israel without a strong reaction? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rog Posted July 26, 2006 Share Posted July 26, 2006 You're definitely a troll... funniest thing I've read in ages. You must be related to the Iraqi Information Minister ... No, lectro, I'm just an elderly Jewish guy with a whole lot of knowledge about the region, the politics, and the way that the people in the region think, and what it's like to be engaged in war especially as it's being fought right now. This one isn't all that different from others in the past. We get attacked, we strike back, we get slated for doing so. Bad things happen and in this case I do believe it was mishap as there is no supporting evidence that the post had been under deliberate attack by artillery, and of course it's those “eeevil Jews” again. I'm also a person with friends and family who have been in harms way in the past and who are at present, and whose country is at risk and being libeled left right and centre. People are being blown to pieces and you`re squeeling like a pig because you think you`re being libeled? Do all Jews feel this way about the situation?I really hope not.Salavating and jerking off over people being killed makes you no different to the Nazis.Remember them Rog? The present war against our enemies has (according to a poll taken in israel a couple of days ago) by 85% of the population. There is also overwhelming support for what is taking place by Jewish people across the world. (http://www.israelnationalnews.com/news.php3?id=108366) I have no problem with our enemies being blown to bits. I fully support it. I REALLY do. They had their chance for peace. The chose war. So be it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chinahand Posted July 26, 2006 Share Posted July 26, 2006 Agree, but isn't there an amount of arrogance on Hizbollah's part in thinking they are free to rocket Israel without a strong reaction? Of course, but the fact is they'd been doing it for 5 or so years and a status quo of violence had resulted. I think they didn't expect a strong reaction they expected the usual low level shelling and raids. The question is was Hizbollah preparing to escallate themselves and the Israelis beat them to it? Or could the status quo have continued as the political situation evolved? The political situation was moving in Israel's, and peace's, direction ... militias disarming, Syrian influence weakening etc ... but Hizbollah was resisting that political change ... now its irrelevant. Israel's gone large and the politics will have to catch up ... who knows how it'll end up. The idea that Syria, Iran, Hizbollah or even a lot of radicals in Lebanon will allow a western orientated peace keeping force come in and neuter Hizbollah ... seems very unrealistic. And if the forces are robust ... well Israel tried that for 20 years, and it didn't work. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rog Posted July 27, 2006 Share Posted July 27, 2006 Two great truisms, fat dogs fart and I don’t like John Simpson, but on this occasion I think that he’s bang on target with this interview. http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/talking_point/5216708.stm Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chinahand Posted July 27, 2006 Share Posted July 27, 2006 What People's Daily online [a (sometimes poorly) translated version of the Official Chinese Government Newspaper] thinks about: The Rome Peace (?) Conference The Rome conference achieved virtually nothing on Wednesday as the participants failed to agree on how and when a ceasefire could take place between Israel and Lebanese Hezbollah guerrillas. U.S. Secretary of State Condoleezza Rice, UN Secretary General Kofi Annan, Lebanese Prime Minister Fouad Siniora and Italian Foreign Minister Massimo D'Amato all appeared stone-faced at a press conference following discussions in the morning. and Israel's bombing of the UN compound. This is an opinion piece ... to say the strength of its language is little short of breath taking is a major understatement. The CPC are not happy ... not one little bit. Israel has gone too far Israel's attack on a long established and clearly marked Untied Nations base overlooking the border at Khiam in southern Lebanon on Tuesday is stunning. We express our strongest condemnation at this inhuman move and convey our deepest condolences to the victims and their families. Israel must apologize for the bombing and to the victims' families. It is high time that the relevant sides returned to talks to pursue a political solution. With Israel resorting to military attacks after two of its soldiers were taken hostage by Hezbollah, the crisis in the Middle East is spiralling out of control. Israel's bombing has gone beyond the legitimate right of self-defence. By resisting calls for an urgent ceasefire, Washington is buying Israel more time to pound Lebanon. Yet there is little sign that Hezbollah has been so far deeply wounded. Saudi Arabia, Egypt and Jordan, the countries that Washington is relying on to rein in Hezbollah, made clear that they could not accept a US plan that would make a ceasefire only part of a broader peace deal. From the 1967 war onward, Israel's key strategic goal has been to avoid a political process at all costs. The country understood that the inescapable result of such a process would be Israel's return to its 1967 borders, with only minor adjustments. Avoiding a political process is also the reason behind Israel's decision to withdraw Jewish settlements from the Gaza Strip in return for an intensification of Israel's presence in the West Bank. But this tit-for-tat strategy has never found them peace. Of course the Chinese press has a long tradition of anti-semitism and anti-Israel bias, not. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Larsen Posted July 27, 2006 Share Posted July 27, 2006 Usefull site if you're a little lost... Middle East Buddy List Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rog Posted July 27, 2006 Share Posted July 27, 2006 Usefull site if you're a little lost...Middle East Buddy List What an amazingly inaccurate and inadequate summation in that item.. It takes no account of the events leading up to the kidnapping by hammas nor about the escalating violence and accompanying rocket attacks against Israel by hez-b’allah before the kidnapping of the two Israeli soldiers. It also totally misses the point that the strikes against hez-b’allah is not a disproportionate use of force as the attacks BY hez-b’allah were the tip of a huge iceberg that had started to once more bear down in Israel. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chinahand Posted July 27, 2006 Share Posted July 27, 2006 Some good news ... maybe? A soldier maybe released and the release coordinated via moderates (well relative moderates ... just to please that voice of moderation himself - Rog!) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lonan3 Posted July 27, 2006 Share Posted July 27, 2006 http://www.guardian.co.uk/israel/Story/0,,1830632,00.html I think the Israelis may be rather glad of it. The original objective of "breaking Hizbullah" has been quietly watered down to "weakening Hizbullah". Mr Olmert's sudden agreement to the deployment of a multinational force on the border reflects reluctant recognition that Israel cannot itself disarm the Lebanese militia and needs a foreign buffer. International focus on civilian deaths in Lebanon - roughly 10 times the number suffered by Israel - has badly undermined Israel's case abroad, despite the unwavering support of the US. Its own propaganda efforts have been poor and uncoordinated. (Someone like Rog in charge of it, perhaps?) But Ze'ev Schiff, the highly respected doyen of Israeli military commentators, and author of the definitive history of the 1982 war, put it bluntly: "Israel is far from a decisive victory and its main objectives have not been achieved." Rog Posted Yesterday, 08:26 PM The present war against our enemies has (according to a poll taken in israel a couple of days ago) by 85% of the population. There is also overwhelming support for what is taking place by Jewish people across the world. Few Israelis are protesting against the war, as they did in their hundreds of thousands after the 1982 invasion of Lebanon. Apart from small demonstrations by Israeli Arabs and Jewish leftwingers, there is broad support for hitting back at the Shia guerrillas after their border raid and abduction of two Israeli soldiers. But what is becoming clear is the deep concern about the conduct and progress of the campaign. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tugger Posted July 27, 2006 Share Posted July 27, 2006 Usefull site if you're a little lost... Middle East Buddy List What an amazingly inaccurate and inadequate summation in that item.. It takes no account of the events leading up to the kidnapping by hammas nor about the escalating violence and accompanying rocket attacks against Israel by hez-b’allah before the kidnapping of the two Israeli soldiers. It also totally misses the point that the strikes against hez-b’allah is not a disproportionate use of force as the attacks BY hez-b’allah were the tip of a huge iceberg that had started to once more bear down in Israel. That's not a "point", as they ARE disporoprtionate Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rog Posted July 27, 2006 Share Posted July 27, 2006 Usefull site if you're a little lost... Middle East Buddy List What an amazingly inaccurate and inadequate summation in that item.. It takes no account of the events leading up to the kidnapping by hammas nor about the escalating violence and accompanying rocket attacks against Israel by hez-b’allah before the kidnapping of the two Israeli soldiers. It also totally misses the point that the strikes against hez-b’allah is not a disproportionate use of force as the attacks BY hez-b’allah were the tip of a huge iceberg that had started to once more bear down in Israel. That's not a "point", as they ARE disporoprtionate Very true. We should nuke the bastards. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jacko Posted July 27, 2006 Share Posted July 27, 2006 Usefull site if you're a little lost... Middle East Buddy List What an amazingly inaccurate and inadequate summation in that item.. It takes no account of the events leading up to the kidnapping by hammas nor about the escalating violence and accompanying rocket attacks against Israel by hez-b’allah before the kidnapping of the two Israeli soldiers. It also totally misses the point that the strikes against hez-b’allah is not a disproportionate use of force as the attacks BY hez-b’allah were the tip of a huge iceberg that had started to once more bear down in Israel. That's not a "point", as they ARE disporoprtionate Very true. We should nuke the bastards. Whatever you say Adolf.Every post you make makes me wonder if Hitler had the right idea afterall Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
P.K. Posted July 27, 2006 Share Posted July 27, 2006 I have spent more time serving the UK (The British Isles if you include the IOM) than you can imagine. I am an advocate of commonsense that's all, and old enough to see and remember just how cyclic Middle East violence has become, and sensible enough to analyse who is really causing the problems there. Interested enough to try and work out a solution, and not blind enough to not see how much bullshit the US and UK populations have been subjected to over the past five years by a right wing fanatical religeous leadership in the US. You are clearly a FWit PK - that had you been born in Germany would have made a great concentration camp guard, or born in Israel, happy to just fire shells from gun number three from hill six into some distant village in Lebanon (where anything that moves is a legitimate target - Red Cross ambulances included). You are a grunt, an obeyer of illegitemate orders, and cannon fodder. I am interested why you think that some who have been in are somehow unable to understand the politics or can no longer see right from wrong. The sort who at Nuremburg pleaded "just obeying orders". I'm coming to the conclusion that if they can't see your point of view according to you they are then somehow "blind to the reality". Well sorry sunshine, I think it's you who can't think it through. I didn't care that no WMD were found because they slaughtered the Pasradan with all sorts of nasties which means, surprise surprise, that they know how to manufacture it. Whoever said knowledge is power sure knew what they were talking about. Now that Saddam chappie had already attacked two of his neighbours, deployed WMD against them and his own people, had a VERY tight grip on the country, was developing even nastier stuff and had two heirs just like him (if the reports are to be believed - even worse than him) to keep the Baathist ball rolling. In other words the only viable method of putting a stop to it all was a military one. Fortunately that's what happened. Remember, in the real world politicians make difficult decisions and the military get hard, ugly things done. Not because they want to, but because they have to. Now I can figure that out. And by the way "grunt" is a US derogatory term, "plank" or "nod" is the correct descriptive form if you are British (i.e. thick as two short planks.) There is no such thing as an illigitimate order (I think you mean illegal) and as the British Army is the best bunch of legalised lunatics around "cannon fodder" we most certainly weren't. This is a very high stakes Game Israel has chosen to play ... they could have replied in the business as usual fashion Hizbollah were expecting ... but now its all up in the air and who knows how things will end up. Agreed. Even though Hezbollah (and their Syrian and Iranian masters) were not expecting such a broad response their defences by now would appear to be more than difficult. The IDF will use it's superior firepower to reduce IDF casualties. If the enemy is so well dug in superior firepower will not help you. Then you will only get them out with men on the ground. Which is why the IDF are not finding it as easy as they thought it would be. I still think this is the broader aim: Because the Lebanese state is so weak and their army mostly Hezbollah supporters, if they can't be stopped from within then it looks like a UN action to police the south of the country. So I guess from an Isreali standpoint the more they bomb the infrastructure the more pressure goes on Hezbollah supporters and the more pressure is applied on the UN to do something. Looks like a win/win from here. I guess they will stop when they have weakened Hezbollah enough that the UN or Nato can commit peacekeepers. The IDF is calling up more personnel. It looks like they still intend to weaken Hezbollah to the point where they are less relevant militarily. If I've got the strategy right having come this far the IDF basically has no choice. Usefull site if you're a little lost... Middle East Buddy List What an amazingly inaccurate and inadequate summation in that item.. It takes no account of the events leading up to the kidnapping by hammas nor about the escalating violence and accompanying rocket attacks against Israel by hez-b’allah before the kidnapping of the two Israeli soldiers. It also totally misses the point that the strikes against hez-b’allah is not a disproportionate use of force as the attacks BY hez-b’allah were the tip of a huge iceberg that had started to once more bear down in Israel That's not a "point", as they ARE disporoprtionate Very true. We should nuke the bastards. Well, it's thought they have the capability to do it. It does amuse me the way Rog goads the supporters of that proscribed terrorist organization called Hezbollah. It's like winding up a little clockwork doll. As soon as you show how pleased you are that some of the disgusting little terrorists are dead the "holier than thou" brigade immediately condemn the "heavy handed" action. Well, it's very simple. Don't support the terrorists who started off this particularly vicious round and the regional superpower will not bomb you. All Israel wants is to be left alone by Lebanon. If only the Lebanese Army could have enforced the UN resolution to disarm Hezbollah. None of those poor civilians would have been killed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rog Posted July 28, 2006 Share Posted July 28, 2006 Whatever you say Adolf.Every post you make makes me wonder if Hitler had the right idea afterall Maybe he did but chose the wrong race! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
joeyconcrete Posted July 28, 2006 Author Share Posted July 28, 2006 The ITV news feature last night suggested that the latest opinion polls in Lebanon show 87% support for Hezbollah, with a large percentage of the Christian population showing support. It seems the innocent civilians are starting to get a little p***ed off with Israel's bombardment by the sounds of it, which is probably what Hezbollah would wish for unfortunately. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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