Theskeat Posted July 17, 2006 Share Posted July 17, 2006 Showing his true genius and understanding of global politics. Without wanting to start to sound like Mr Pedantic where exactly is Bierut [sic]; lets hope he's not the one punching the co-ordinates the dyslexic fool... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
When Skies Are Grey Posted July 17, 2006 Share Posted July 17, 2006 Oh Beirut....thanks for the clarification. Still looks like you will be lobing [sic] your bombs about 12 miles too far West though.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lovenotfear Posted July 17, 2006 Share Posted July 17, 2006 Words of an idiot president caught by live microphone ... ... 'You see, the ... thing is what they need to do is to get Syria, to get Hezbollah to stop doing this shit and it's over.' Click here to watch http://www.cnn.com/video/partners/clickabi....expletive.affl Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LoneWolf Posted July 17, 2006 Share Posted July 17, 2006 Apart from that it's Israel who are the injured party and have been for years. Sanctions should have been applied against the Lebanon years ago. Im not certain what to make of the rest of your posts Rog but you are absolutely correct in your assertion Israel is the injured party here. In my opinion the media representation of events in the area has been little short of disgraceful in presenting a totally one sided representation of what has happened. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
the mo beats experience Posted July 17, 2006 Share Posted July 17, 2006 The end is nigh? With the apparent links between the Hezbollix and Iran&Syria, then the arms trade links with the likes of North Koria, how far is this going to go? Could it potentially extend to a far wider war? If a UN or international force went in to try and sort it out, is it possible that Syria, N Koria and Iran may join in? With the arms at their disposal that would be a frightening concept. Are we looking at the start of the 3rd World War? Nostrodamus said the end of the world would come from the east didn't he? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
P.K. Posted July 17, 2006 Share Posted July 17, 2006 But this is totally off topic so we shouldn't get dragged into it again ... but really Rog ... just read your posts ... makes it sound like the UK is being colonized by a culture with totally divided loyalties Well, we have had the odd "home grown" suicide bomber over here you know. Israel's stance was mentioned in their "farewell" videos. Funny that.... I really think its better to keep arguing about the modern semi-secular state of Israel and keep away from UK Jews disinvesting and putting their religion before their country. Which is exactly how I would expect them to respond. Money talks you know... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LoneWolf Posted July 17, 2006 Share Posted July 17, 2006 The facts dont support the media representation of the reasons for the fighting and who is to blame. However,the current fighting was neatly put into context, on 11th July, by Palestinian Prime Minister Haniyeh who said "The dispute is not only about Gaza and the West Bank. It is about a wider national conflict that requires the vindication of Palestinian rights." For those of you who, perhaps, dont follow these things, Haniyeh was referring to the 1948 issues specifically to a Palestinian State and no Israel. He didnt make any reference to the actions of terrorist groups based in Gaza and Lebanon. We might all recall Israel made a unilateral evacuation of Gaza last September. The Palestinians then chose not to build infrastrucuture or to improve the lot of their people but to support terrorist groups. These terrorists groups used Gaza as a base for launching rocket attacks against Israel and for cross border attacks such as the one which recently killed two soldiers and kidnapped another wounded soldier. A Lebanese terrorist group, Hezbollah, which has representatives in the Lebanese Parliament, has turned South Lebanon into a base for launcing terrorist attacks against Israel. Hezbollah is thought to have up to 10,000 Katyusha rockets in South Lebanon. Hezbollah has been launching raids and rocket attacks into Israel for the last 6 years. These terrorist activities have been repeatedly justified by the Palestinian contention that Jews are nothing more than colonisers of an area to which they have no connection. The Palestinians as well as Arab States have also repeatedly claimed a Palestinian State existed in the area prior to the State of Isael being established. Both of these claims have no basis in fact. Jewish communities have lived in the West Bank and the Gaza Strip continuously since Biblical times for about 4,000 years. This, of course, includes the 400 years of Ottoman rule and the period of the British mandate. No independent Arab or Palestinian State has ever existed in the area formerly known as Palestine. The Israeli withdrawal from Gaza resulted in the first ever independent Palestinian State in that area. It doesnt seem to be well understood in the UK area that this continuous period of Jewish settlement in the West Bank and Gaza, was only ended during the 1948 war of independence.These territories, Gaza and the West Bank, were captured by Jordan and Egypt as part of a war of aggression aimed at destroying the new State of Israel. Jordan and Egypt totally ended any Jewish presence and Jews were forbidden to live there. In addition, they made it a capital offence to sell any land in those areas to Jews. We might also note it was the joint invasion of those areas by Egypt and Jrdan which prevented the establishment of a Palestinian State. The invasion was a total rejection of UN General Assembly Resolution 181 which would have partitioned the territory of the British Mandate into a Jewish State and an Arab State. [We dont hear much of that from the Palestinian propoganda machine]. The international communities, with the notable exception of the UK and Pakistan, never recognised the invasion as legitimate.[uK policy was motivated by concerns over Suez which is another story]. So it was the actions of Egypt and Jordan together which prevented the establishment of a Palestinian State. This situation changed in 1967 when Israel was attacked and fought and won a war of survival.As a result of this war Israel gained some additional territory which was vital for its security. This territory included the Gaza Strip and West Bank. Contrary to repeated Palestinian claims this was not occupied territory. Political motivations lie behind the persistent unfactual claims that Israel is occupying Palestinian territory and that such occupation is illegal. The Palestinians had no territory to occupy and furthermore no Sovereign power held sovereignty over these territories. The legality of the Israeli presence has already been determined and accepted by all the international community with the exception of the Palestinian terrorists and their supporters. The Israeli presence is not illegal. The UN has never once stated it is illegal. UN resolution 242 does not require Israel to withdraw from all the territories. it requires Israel to withdraw to secure and recognised boundaries. Furthermore,Un Security Council resolution 338 reinforced this and the expectation was that Israel would negotiate which parts of the territories would become part of Israel.The USA has repeatedly attempted to facilitate these negotiations. We are still repeatedly told by the terrorists that the fighting is about the so called "occupied territories". This is factually incorrect.Israel has not taken any territory from the Palestinians. The fighting is about Israel's existence and nothing has changed since 1948.A group of terrorists based in unoccupied Arab territory is launching attacks against Israel in support of another terrorist group based in unoccupied Arab territory in pursuit of the 1948 objective to destroy Israel. Throughout all of this, over many years, it is Israel and the Israelis who have been the victims. Not the Palestinians. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
P.K. Posted July 18, 2006 Share Posted July 18, 2006 We are still repeatedly told by the terrorists that the fighting is about the so called "occupied territories".This is factually incorrect. Israel has not taken any territory from the Palestinians. First off I agree with most of LW's post. Secondly Israel couldn't take any territory from the Palestinians because they have never been a nation and had no territory to begin with! I would have to question Clement's choice of location though. But at the end of the day Gaza belongs to.... Egypt! Hamas stupidly let their radical factions kill something like 9 IDF and took one hostage back into Gaza. The IDF responded harshly (no point in being the regional super-power if you can't flex your military muscle) so Hezbollah tried to either take the pressure off Gaza or to escalate things to their advantage by doing much the same or both. Big mistake. The IDF know that Lebanon is very fragile and disporate. So it is drawing Hezbollah out where it can destroy it at the same taking down the Lebanese infrastructure to try and remove their support. Devide and rule - it's a tactic as old as the Ceasars. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
joeyconcrete Posted July 18, 2006 Author Share Posted July 18, 2006 LoneWolf - I read your post, and I now have a better insight into the History (or your version, Arabs probably have a different take on things) That in mind, do you still think Israel is justified in bombing a civilian airport, petrol stations, residential areas, bridges and roads - even in Northern Lebanon (Tripoli, Beirut). I am still struggling to see what they hope to achieve. Two soldiers are being held hostage by Terrorists, killing 200+ civilians isn't going to secure their release, if anything it seriously jeopardizes it. I'm certainly not forgetting the dead Israelis from rocket attacks. I can see this spiraling out of control because the Extremists have even more reason to express their anger and Israel will counter that with force. If Israel decide to turn their hand to Syria then things will seriously get out hand. I am failing to see what Israel's goals or tactics are - they say they want the soldiers back but I don't see how this can be achieved doing what they are doing. Their minister was on TV this morning saying the Lebanon offensive will continue for a few weeks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tugger Posted July 18, 2006 Share Posted July 18, 2006 Hezbollah captured Israeli soldiers in a place not recognised by the international community as being part of Israel. In response, Israel has bombed the bejaysus out of a load of civilians. Who looks like the terrorist here? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
P.K. Posted July 18, 2006 Share Posted July 18, 2006 Hezbollah captured Israeli soldiers in a place not recognised by the international community as being part of Israel. Well, that's all right then! Israel has bombed the bejaysus out of a load of civilians. Who looks like the terrorist here? Hezbollah. An eye for an eye. Leave Israel alone and you won't be harmed. Support a terrorist organisation that indiscriminently fires rockets against Israeli civilians and they will bomb the shit out of your infrastructure. It's not exactly rocket science (sorry). Unlike Hezbollah civilian casualties are not the aim here. The intention is to try and wear down Hezbollah popular support. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tugger Posted July 18, 2006 Share Posted July 18, 2006 That's not an eye for an eye. captured soldier (legitimate military target) <> bombed infrastructure (war crime) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
P.K. Posted July 18, 2006 Share Posted July 18, 2006 Tell you what Tugger, your logic makes perfect sense if you deliberately ignore the unpleasant fact that from Lebanese territory Hezbollah are indiscriminantly firing rockets at Haifa in order to cause civilian casualties. Oh sorry, it seems you already have.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Albert Tatlock Posted July 18, 2006 Share Posted July 18, 2006 That's not an eye for an eye. captured soldier (legitimate military target) <> bombed infrastructure (war crime) Hezbollah militants captured two Israeli soldiers in a cross-border raid (they also killed 8 Israeli soldiers in the same raid according to the BBC). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rog Posted July 18, 2006 Share Posted July 18, 2006 That's not an eye for an eye. captured soldier (legitimate military target) <> bombed infrastructure (war crime) Not when the infrastructure is being used for military purposes as is the case in The Lebanon. Get your facts straight. And say what you will, we're doing some serious ass-kicking. I had thought that Ehud Olmert might be a soft touch after Sharon but I'm VERY pleased to see that he isn't. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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