Israel

[joeyconcrete]

And say what you will, we're doing some serious ass-kicking.

 

The United Nations has warned of a humanitarian disaster in Lebanon as people flee their homes.

More than 200 Lebanese citizens have been killed since Israel launched air strikes last Wednesday.

 

Source : BBC

[Tugger]

Indeed, I'm sure that there will be just as many Arabs grinning broadly the next time some Israelis get theirs.

[Rog]

Indeed, I'm sure that there will be just as many Arabs grinning broadly the next time some Israelis get theirs.

 

Not for long they won't be!

 

Not now the game's a'foot!

 

This one is going the distance. It has to.

[Tugger]

Oh yes they will be. Your joy at the wholesale massacre of Lebanese civilians will be matched by theirs at the death of Israelis.

 

Enjoy!

[Albert Tatlock]

And say what you will, we're doing some serious ass-kicking.

Then maybe it's time you went back Rog - seriously kicking innocent arses isn't the sign of either a civilised society or a civilised person.

 

If the Germans had occupied Great Britain during the war and there were Brits firing rockets at them from Glasgow or wherever today, would they be seen by us (or you) as terrorists?

 

Israel is an arrogant country, as arrogant as the US and Britain, and until this arrogance is tempered it is unlikely that there will be a peace. Both the US and the UK have lost their credibility in the middle east, and given licence to any country to fight a 'war on terror' against whoever they dictate are terrorists. This is a legacy for chaos. Israel needs to reach out and agree to settle borders and not restrict access to religeous sites. Notice all the sh1t happens in the world where people are fighting over 3000 year old beliefs. Religeon will be the death of us all.

[Rog]

And say what you will, we're doing some serious ass-kicking.

Then maybe it's time you went back Rog - seriously kicking innocent arses isn't the sign of either a civilised society or a civilised person.

 

If the Germans had occupied Great Britain during the war and there were Brits firing rockets at them from Glasgow or wherever today, would they be seen by us (or you) as terrorists?

 

Israel is an arrogant country, as arrogant as the US and Britain, and until this arrogance is tempered it is unlikely that there will be a peace. Both the US and the UK have lost their credibility in the middle east, and given licence to any country to fight a 'war on terror' against whoever they dictate are terrorists. This is a legacy for chaos. Israel needs to reach out and agree to settle borders and not restrict access to religeous sites. Notice all the sh1t happens in the world where people are fighting over 3000 year old beliefs. Religeon will be the death of us all.

 

Germans and Glasgow? One mans terrorist is categorically NOT in every case another mans freedom fighter.

 

And Israel is not an arrogant country at all. Israel and the Israeli people are proud and patriotic, and with good reason.

 

Agree borders?

 

The only borders that hammas would agree to would be about 20 feet below low water mark.

 

The “palestinians” had their chances again and again and again.

 

The were offered peace again and again and again.

 

They have democratically chosen war.

 

So be it.

[Albert Tatlock]

And say what you will, we're doing some serious ass-kicking.

Then maybe it's time you went back Rog - seriously kicking innocent arses isn't the sign of either a civilised society or a civilised person.

 

If the Germans had occupied Great Britain during the war and there were Brits firing rockets at them from Glasgow or wherever today, would they be seen by us (or you) as terrorists?

 

Israel is an arrogant country, as arrogant as the US and Britain, and until this arrogance is tempered it is unlikely that there will be a peace. Both the US and the UK have lost their credibility in the middle east, and given licence to any country to fight a 'war on terror' against whoever they dictate are terrorists. This is a legacy for chaos. Israel needs to reach out and agree to settle borders and not restrict access to religeous sites. Notice all the sh1t happens in the world where people are fighting over 3000 year old beliefs. Religeon will be the death of us all.

 

Germans and Glasgow? One mans terrorist is categorically NOT in every case another mans freedom fighter.

 

And Israel is not an arrogant country at all. Israel and the Israeli people are proud and patriotic, and with good reason.

 

Agree borders?

 

The only borders that hammas would agree to would be about 20 feet below low water mark.

 

The “palestinians” had their chances again and again and again.

 

The were offered peace again and again and again.

 

They have democratically chosen war.

 

So be it.

QED

[Tugger]

Using quotes around the word Palestinians is a sure-sign of a racist

[The Bastard]

What a load of crap. "Palestinian" isn't an ethnic term, it's a political one. Pathetic baiting of posters with personal insults instead of addressing the issues at hand is a sure sign that you've lost the argument.

 

Oh, and you were wrong about the Israeli soldiers not being in Israel when they were kidnapped, too, so you seem to be straying into a world of wrongness.

[Rog]

Rather interesting reactions from much of the rest of the arab world. I've been looking at a couple of on-line papers and my (rough) translation of the arabic is that a very large demonstration by Palestinians in Ramallah in support of hezballah were heard shouting "Hassan Nasrallah is our hero, the rest of the Arab leaders are cowards" and "O beloved Abu Hadi bomb, bomb Tel Aviv."

 

The rest of the arab leaders are cowards eh!

 

In an Egyptian paper it reports that hezballah leaders are making reference to (quote) an arab conspiracy to liquidate the Shi'ite movement.

 

In Ramallah, the Gaza Strip and some Arab capitals hezballah activists and spokes-things (can’t call them spokes-men) have been aiming most of their criticism against the arab presidents and sheiks and even accusing them of supporting the US and Israel.

 

Saudi Arabia (!)Jordan, and Egypt seem to be the most vocal against hezballah and the opinion amongst the best known arab political commentators and analysts seems to indicate that the leaders of Teheran and Damascus are using hezballah to divert attention from Iran's nuclear program and Syria's involvement in the assassination of former Lebanese prime minister Rafik Hariri.

 

There’s a great deal of unhappiness in the arab world at the prospect of an Iranian bomb.

 

It will be interesting to see how this one develops, it could even result in inter arab war.

 

Not all quite what the anti-Israeli camp think it is.

[Lonan3]

A rather more considered (and intelligent) article concerning the views of British Jewry can be found here:

 

http://news.independent.co.uk/uk/this_brit...icle1183428.ece

 

It ends with the paragraph - For some - like the characters in Mike Leigh's hit play Two Thousand Years - Israel has been a heartbreaking disappointment, an exercise in idealism turned badly wrong. For others, it is still seen as a bolthole if anti-Semitism returns to Europe; a place of potential refuge (and this is particularly true of French Jews). Still others think its creation was an error that must be corrected. But it is highly unlikely that the Diaspora will come to regard it with disinterested objectivity any time soon. Most want to be proud of Israel and are anguished that they are not.

 

Rog's views are, thank heavens, far from universal - even among Jewish people.

[Tugger]

I was right about the Israeli soldiers, sunshine. And I'm also right about what people like Rog hope to achieve with their little inverted commas.

 

So how'd you like them apples, shiite for brains

[lectro]

And say what you will, we're doing some serious ass-kicking.

 

I had thought that Ehud Olmert might be a soft touch after Sharon but I'm VERY pleased to see that he isn't.

 

Not for long they won't be!

 

Not now the game's afoot!

 

What a disgusting warped individual you are. Your pleasure in this speaks volumes about you.

[The Bastard]

I was right about the Israeli soldiers, sunshine. And I'm also right about what people like Rog hope to achieve with their little inverted commas.

 

So how'd you like them apples, shiite for brains

 

"Sunshine" ?

 

You were wrong about the soldiers. They were taken from a military vehicle between Zar'it and Shtula, close to the Lebanese border in northern Israel, in a cross-border raid.

 

Your ridiculous attempt to implicate Rog as a racist based on his use of a political term is just digging the hole deeper and deeper. You're now some distance below the world of wrongness, firmly entering the denial zone.

 

Now why don't you go and play and let the adults do the talking ? It's obvious you can't hold a sensible argument without throwing the dummy when you're losing

[Chinahand]

The Palestinians as well as Arab States have also repeatedly claimed a Palestinian State existed in the area prior to the State of Isael being established.

Both of these claims have no basis in fact.

 

Lonewolf, I'm quite surprised that you use UN 181 to justify the existence of Israel, but ignore the fact that UN 181 also established an Arab state: Check out UN 181 Here

 

The relevent bit seems to be:

 

Independent Arab and Jewish States and the Special International Regime for the City of Jerusalem, set forth in Part III of this Plan, shall come into existence in Palestine two months after the evacuation of the armed forces of the mandatory Power has been completed but in any case not later than 1 October 1948. The boundaries of the Arab State, the Jewish State, and the City of Jerusalem shall be as described in Parts II and III below.

 

And the area described was also mapped.

 

 

(Picture edited by mod - too large)

 

This Arab state was almost immediately invaded and occupied by Eygpt, Jordon, Syria and Israel in 1948 and after 1967 was entirely occupied by Israel, but none of this invalidated the creation of the state, or the desire for self determination of the Palestinian people then and now. The PLO and the PA has status in the UN precisely because of this.

 

Rog has previously published justifications dating back to the 1920s where some Palestinian representatives denied the desire for self determination of the Palestine people and claimed they wished to remain a part of the Ottoman or whatever Pan-Arab entity could be created from its ruins.

 

I think that is totally irrelevant. To claim there wasn’t a strong desire for a Palestinian state in the 1940s is to deny reality and to deny it now is the most cloud cuckoo thing possible. All this playing around with history is just so much false-justification. Self determination is a current desire and not a historical fabrication … in fact both sides use historical fabrications to justify their current political desires, but this is putting the cart before the horse. Ignore or deny or use as much history as you like, it doesn’t ignore the political problem of millions of people wanting very different political futures for the same patches of land.