sheeader Posted June 26, 2006 Share Posted June 26, 2006 The particular problem with these leaflets is that it will give those holding xenophobic and racist attitudes, the idea that their views are mainstream and acceptable. Therefore we must show our FACES, to demonstrate that they are in a minority. But the whole point is that on the Mainland they are not. The 'YouGov' poll in April proved that. 76% of people questioned said they would not support the BNP. Whilst only 7% would vote for the party in the United Kingdom's general election. Which suggests the BNP is still in a minority! There is also no details of the demographic makeup of those questioned, and the response rate. To quote Mark Twain, "There are three kinds of lies: lies, damned lies, and statistics" The survey was comissioned by a newspaper, which raises series issues of the potential for biased. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
teapot Posted June 26, 2006 Share Posted June 26, 2006 I heard on MR that "John Shimmin the Home Affairs Minister says he will be making inquiries about the visit of BNP supporters, including their chairman, to the Island in the last two days." It also says the BNP also claimed 'support in Manx pubs for their ideas on immigration.' Well IMHO ask a few pissed manxmen anything in a pub and you'll get any answer you want to hear. Whilst many people, including myself, don't like what the BNP have to say - if we are to maintain free speech then the BNP and other groups should always be entitled to voice their opinion ('I might not like what you say but I would fight to the death to defend your right to say it' - and all that). It will take a major change for the Manx public to accept and vote for conventional party politics over here as it is, never mind the right wing fantasies of a party of racist unintellectual half-wits pandering to a mob mentality. Perhaps is would be an idea for MR to have John Shimmin and this BNP guy in the studio at the same time and get David Callister to question them both. John Shimmin could question the BNP guy and then at least we might find out what exactly the BNP were doing/interested in on the Island. It's not enough just to throw the leaflet in the bin (it hasn't reached St Johns yet by the way!) - knowledge is power, learn about them yourselves and then they can be dealt with. It's not enough just to rant on about them being racist thugs etc, they have to be dealt with intelligently and a strong argument has to be put up against them, otherwise they will pray on the publics insecurities and the next thing you know they'll have a BNP person in Tynwald! Sometimes when you listen to one or two of the members of Tynwald ranting on in the Court you wonder about their views and I'm sure they'd say they weren't racist, but it's a very small leap from outrageous views to xenophobia! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rog Posted June 26, 2006 Share Posted June 26, 2006 76% of people questioned said they would not support the BNP. Whilst only 7% would vote for the party in the United Kingdom's general election. Which suggests the BNP is still in a minority! There is also no details of the demographic makeup of those questioned, and the response rate. To quote Mark Twain, "There are three kinds of lies: lies, damned lies, and statistics" The survey was comissioned by a newspaper, which raises series issues of the potential for biased. There is no question that the BNP is a minority party but what is at issue is that the views and opinions that it promotes are not. As for the poll, although it was commissioned by a newspaper it was not UNDERTAKEN by a newspaper. The YouGov pollster organisation takes demography as well as other factors into account in order to present a highly accurate results for clients. This has consistently been shown to be effective in consequential findings following surveys, and the 2005 election campaign and eventual result typifies the accuracy of its work. Personally I would take with a very large pinch of salt any newspaper poll as I know very well that the answer that you get can be manipulated by the question asked as well as the sample used, but where I see a YouGov finding then I take heed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gladys Posted June 26, 2006 Share Posted June 26, 2006 The particular problem with these leaflets is that it will give those holding xenophobic and racist attitudes, the idea that their views are mainstream and acceptable. Therefore we must show our FACES, to demonstrate that they are in a minority. But the whole point is that on the Mainland they are not. The 'YouGov' poll in April proved that. 76% of people questioned said they would not support the BNP. Whilst only 7% would vote for the party in the United Kingdom's general election. Which suggests the BNP is still in a minority! There is also no details of the demographic makeup of those questioned, and the response rate. To quote Mark Twain, "There are three kinds of lies: lies, damned lies, and statistics" The survey was comissioned by a newspaper, which raises series issues of the potential for biased. What a surprise Rog in accurately quoting "evidence". Anyway , I'm sure the majority of Germans supported the Nazi party before WWII, as well! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ermo Posted June 26, 2006 Share Posted June 26, 2006 "It also says the BNP also claimed 'support in Manx pubs for their ideas on immigration.' Well IMHO ask a few pissed manxmen anything in a pub and you'll get any answer you want to hear." Sorry? Manx pubs?? pissed up manxmen??? Why is it being assumed by some that the BNP would appeal exclusively to the Manx population? Has it ever occurred to you that the BNP does have quite a bit of support in some quarters of the Ex-pat community especially the type who moved over here "to get away from that lot” (meaning other races) I happen to know quite a few people who work within the Islands finance sector who are quite vocal on this subject, but when it has been pointed out to them that they too could be/could have been classed as economic migrants, we are told that's different, we're a benefit to the system etc...... Oh right, I suppose that must be diffrent then Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Albert Tatlock Posted June 26, 2006 Share Posted June 26, 2006 Has it ever occurred to you that the BNP does have quite a bit of support in some quarters of the Ex-pat community especially the type who moved over here "to get away from that lot” (meaning other races) I happen to know quite a few people who work within the Islands finance sector who are quite vocal on this subject, but when it has been pointed out to them that they too could be/could have been classed as economic migrants, we are told that's different, we're a benefit to the system etc......Oh right, I suppose that must be diffrent then It has occurred to me - I have mentioned it a few times in previous posts. These people you refer to are of no benefit to the island with racist comments like that. They are also poor citizens if they have given up on their own country and are in effect nothing but 'scrounging economic racist immigrants' themselves taking up some locals job or holding back his promotion etc. And they are the worst kind i.e. those that spread poison - who should be filtered out and deported Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
La_Dolce_Vita Posted June 26, 2006 Share Posted June 26, 2006 It would be interested to know how much support they could get in the Island. The Island doesn't really have much of an immigration problem. The main groups of immigrants are mainly from within the British Isles so it would seem something of a contradiction to support their immigration policies when so many of a certain mentality that complains about the 'comeovers'. Also, given that the Island's people have had so little interaction with other cultures given the local population of ethnic minorities, we do not have experience at living with the so-called problems that the BNP would argue have arisen in Britain. As the Island's people have little experience at confronting discrimination and their own racism any present-day Island support for the BNP would have to come from what we perceived to be the problems in England or what we fear for the Island. To argue the Isle of Man's people are less racist can, in my opinion, only be true in that we have had no experience in interacting and living with other cultures. To say the Island's people are more open-minded and tolerant is rubbish, especially when you reflect on the 'comeover' attitudes and the 'boat in the morning' cliches. With those views I think don't think it would be surprising to see more active racism in society. Let's not forget, however, that the BNP are not just racist. It might be one of the more abhorrent things about them but they are also actively homophobic in their views. Moreover, from what I have read it seems like they want society to go back to some quasi-1930s or 1950s society, more repressive times. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
T Reznor Posted June 26, 2006 Share Posted June 26, 2006 I see they're also great believers in free speech and democracy, if you don't like what they say you too will get slashed: http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk_politics/5102836.stm Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
slinkydevil Posted June 26, 2006 Share Posted June 26, 2006 ...they are also actively homophobic in their views. Moreover, from what I have read it seems like they want society to go back to some quasi-1930s or 1950s society, more repressive times. Or the repressive 1990's in the Isle of Man's case. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bombay Bad Boy Posted June 26, 2006 Share Posted June 26, 2006 3FM "the BNP has nothing to offer the Isle of Man" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VinnieK Posted June 26, 2006 Share Posted June 26, 2006 B******s! Learn to speak a couple of languages and you will see that other countries are nothing like England. That's just plain super Albert, the only problem being that I didn't say that other countries are like England. 'Other countries' are nothing like France, or 'Bolivia' either, so what's your point? My views are based on spending a third of my life in England, a third on the island and a third travelling. Face it - the English have a 'Empirical chip' on their shoulder wherever they go in the world - including England. A chip on their shoulder? Pots and kettles spring to mind. I've met plenty of English people who've been arses, but they've been no worse or represented a greater proportion of their nationality in my experience than is the case with the Manx. Perhaps you personally just bring out the worst in them, with the attitude you've displayed on here so many times, it would hardly be a surprise. You might call it racism - I call it culturism. That's because racism is a dirty, nasty little trait, and so you've just invented a pleasant euphemism like 'culturalism' to absolve you of any guilt. The fact is that any post that even vaguely hints at mentioning the English acts upon you like a red rag does upon a bull, and you simply can't help but wheel out the usual clanking stereotypes, reducing 40 million other human beings to nothing more than the object of a venemous caricature. That is racism, pure and simple, no matter how you may care to rationalise it, claim that it's based on experience, or introduce questionable historical precedent to justify your views (all of which being favourite tactics of the prejudiced). SoI'd rather thirty thousand German migrants all willing to adopt and protect the island than one arrogant Englishman. So you only resent and look down your nose at one race. Bravo. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
robbieh Posted June 26, 2006 Share Posted June 26, 2006 76% of people questioned said they would not support the BNP. Whilst only 7% would vote for the party in the United Kingdom's general election. Which suggests the BNP is still in a minority! There is also no details of the demographic makeup of those questioned, and the response rate. To quote Mark Twain, "There are three kinds of lies: lies, damned lies, and statistics" The survey was comissioned by a newspaper, which raises series issues of the potential for biased. There is no question that the BNP is a minority party but what is at issue is that the views and opinions that it promotes are not. As for the poll, although it was commissioned by a newspaper it was not UNDERTAKEN by a newspaper. The YouGov pollster organisation takes demography as well as other factors into account in order to present a highly accurate results for clients. This has consistently been shown to be effective in consequential findings following surveys, and the 2005 election campaign and eventual result typifies the accuracy of its work. Personally I would take with a very large pinch of salt any newspaper poll as I know very well that the answer that you get can be manipulated by the question asked as well as the sample used, but where I see a YouGov finding then I take heed. Personally I would take with an extremely large bowl of salt anything you say or suggest. I don't think your little one man band miss-information-fest will win anyone over. A lot of people who will select the BNP do so just as they did in local elections in the UK - to make a point. Not because they want to vote them in, just to shock people a bit. Despite what you read into it, they aren't popular in the UK by any means and are seen as abhorrent by anyone with a normal thought pattern. They haven't changed greatly and no one will believe you so give it up, you can't polish a turd Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tonto Posted June 26, 2006 Share Posted June 26, 2006 I shredded my leaflets and put the result in an envelope and posted it off to them, it was worth the stamp. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hugh Jampton Posted June 26, 2006 Share Posted June 26, 2006 I still would not like to live in the UK towns with a high percentage of black or brown faces. I guess that's racist to some of you but I never feel at home there. If all the British people who live here now were black or brown I think alot of you would feel like I do. I like coming home here Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LoneWolf Posted June 26, 2006 Share Posted June 26, 2006 Very interesting series of posts from Albert and as we might expect a top drawer summary and put down from Vinnie. Im not really certain where Albert is coming from on this one. On the one hand he protests at the effect of the global economy and seems to be pleading for the Island to become an Irish Sea Cuba ? On the other hand he has been very critical of those he describes as the English. Vinnie thinks he is being racist and on the face of things it seems Albert might be. I wonder .... Whereas the vast majority of English people are decent fairminded people I too do not like the mindset of the "Empire Loyalist" English. I have done a fair bit of travelling and have never encountered a mindset like it anywhere else. I just wonder if Albert is referring to that mindset when he rails againt the "English".? He hasnt struck me as racist in his previous posts. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Archived
This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.