[BBC News]No Manx ID cards 'without debate'

[Tuna Sandwich]

Yep, If Blur has been told by the European Central Government (Germany) that the UK has to have them then they will get them. If the UK get them we will get them. There is nothing Tynwald, you or I can do about it, except leave the EU.

 

Firstly, we are not in the EU.

Secondly, the UK can not impose their laws on us without consent (as with speeding in UK, can be fined but no points on license), how we get around if in UK is another question waiting to be answered. Maybe we will need to carry our passports for travelling there?

 

You are wrong. We are in the EU, as an associate member with restrictions as defined in Protocol 3.

 

Yes, the UK CAN impose their laws and regulations on us, but usually do not. An example of Government regulations being imposed on us is the cabin bagage issue regarding liquids, size etc. The current regulations affect the UK and Northern Ireland only (and of course Jersey, Guernsey and IOM as we are effectively part of the UK).

 

As Aimeejulia points out we already have many forms of ID and we don't need any more. I am not against ID, I am against biometric ID. As for the idea of the information only being kept in Government departments, PAH!!! They are already talking of selling it off to raise revenue!

[iom_cb]

Westminster can legislate FULLY for the Isle of Man if it wishes.

 

Source: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Politics_of_t..._United_Kingdom

 

It is unusual for it to do so but I can imagine that on an isssue such as this they would be likely to.

 

A situation in which ALL british citizens (for which I remind people there is no such thing as Manx Citizenship under international law) have these cards but we don't would put Manx people at a disadvantage when it comes to travelling.

 

The Isle of Man has to adhere to international standards if not legally then pragmatically, I know some people don't like to admit this.

[The Old Git]

You are wrong. We are in the EU,

 

Well that's probably news to the IOM and the EU

 

We have a "special relationship" with the EU, but we aren't actually in the EU

 

We can't vote in the EU, we have no political member representing in the UE. we don't pay in to the EU, we don't receive money from the EU.

 

Some of us, including myself, have no right of free movement and services within the EU

[Tuna Sandwich]

You are wrong. We are in the EU,

 

Well that's probably news to the IOM and the EU

 

We have a "special relationship" with the EU, but we aren't actually in the EU

 

We can't vote in the EU, we have no political member representing in the UE. we don't pay in to the EU, we don't receive money from the EU.

 

Some of us, including myself, have no right of free movement and services within the EU

 

Exactly, except we are members of the EU (Protocol 3), the special relationship just means that they can tell us what to do (EU retention tax, for example) but we do not get any of the benefits.

 

Yes, you do have right of free movement and services within the EU. You choose not to take them.

[The Old Git]

Exactly, except we are members of the EU

 

We aren't a member of the EU in the sense generally accepted by the IOM, UK and the EU itself. You may have your own interpretation of the facts, but they aren't generally held by the governments concerned.

 

Yes, you do have right of free movement and services within the EU. You choose not to take them.

 

I tend to believe what's on my passport, in preference to what you post in the internet.

 

However, I am doubtful about any EU member enjoying the right of free movement after having gone through the numerous passport checks on a recent European holiday.

[Ripsaw]

Those with an interest in personal freedoms, Residency Act, Airport security, Joined up Government, ID cards etc.. may wish to add another consultation to their list...

 

The Regulation of Surveillance Etc. Bill 2006

[Chinahand]

Yes, you do have right of free movement and services within the EU. You choose not to take them.

 

I tend to believe what's on my passport, in preference to what you post in the internet.

 

However, I am doubtful about any EU member enjoying the right of free movement after having gone through the numerous passport checks on a recent European holiday.

 

I think you will find that if you choose to move to the UK for 5 years the nice man in the UK passport office will remove the restrictions currently noted in your passport.

 

What happens if you then move back here is anyones guess and most likely untested. Sadly for you this isn't an issue for many people.

[Tuna Sandwich]

Yes, you do have right of free movement and services within the EU. You choose not to take them.

 

I tend to believe what's on my passport, in preference to what you post in the internet.

 

However, I am doubtful about any EU member enjoying the right of free movement after having gone through the numerous passport checks on a recent European holiday.

 

In order to be one of the 10,000 or so Manx people who DO NOT have free movement in the EU, you have to request it and prove that you are eligable for it, i.e. you restricted yourself. You chose not to take the benefits. You basically chose what your passport says.

 

Any Manx person has the right to hold a Brithsh passport, which grants them the rights of free movement in the EU (as do people from Guernsey, Jersey, even Bermuda).

[The Old Git]

I think you will find that if you choose to move to the UK for 5 years the nice man in the UK passport office will remove the restrictions currently noted in your passport.

 

I'm aware of that, but it's not something I really want to do. There might be some back door way I could get an Irish passport as well

 

Edit - For clarification, it's not really an issue, I've no plans to work in the EU. I was just using it as an example of how the IOM isn't part of the EU

[The Old Git]

In order to be one of the 10,000 or so Manx people who DO NOT have free movement in the EU, you have to request it and prove that you are eligable for it, i.e. you restricted yourself. You chose not to take the benefits. You basically chose what your passport says.

 

I can assure you that I did not ask for it.

 

Some time in the dim and distant past I might have ticked some boxes on a form to say that I didn't have any UK grandparents, but that would be a case of filling out a government form truthfully and certainly not asking for "the stamp".

 

I don't really think you can choose what your passport says.

[The Old Git]

Any Manx person has the right to hold a Brithsh passport, which grants them the rights of free movement in the EU (as do people from Guernsey, Jersey, even Bermuda).

 

http://www.jersey.attac.org/html/passport1.html seems to contradict you, although the difference between free movement for holidays and free movement to work should be pointed out. "Holder is not entitled to benefit from European Community provisions relating to employment or establishment" is the key phrase

[Tuna Sandwich]

Any Manx person has the right to hold a Brithsh passport, which grants them the rights of free movement in the EU (as do people from Guernsey, Jersey, even Bermuda).

 

http://www.jersey.attac.org/html/passport1.html seems to contradict you, although the difference between free movement for holidays and free movement to work should be pointed out. "Holder is not entitled to benefit from European Community provisions relating to employment or establishment" is the key phrase

 

Jersey and Guernsey are slightly different as they do not have reciprocal national health and pensions agreements with the UK. However, in 2003 (I think - I will try to find a link) the UK extended a citizenship right to all crown dependancies. In other words, whereas when India became independant people were offered british citizenship (also Hong Kong and other parts of the Empire), this was seen as discriminatory. Therefore the UK offered it to ALL crown dependancies. There are several reasons, firstly (officially) as a prequal to devolution of the remaining crown dependancies, and secondly to gain more control in return. The first thing it did was to implement the EU withholding tax situation. Bermuda was quite famously left off the list!!! They will not be next time.

 

All people living in Crown dependancies need to do now is prove their crown dependancy citizenship, apply for a full british and european passport and surrender their old passport - this being a key thing.

 

Besides, it there is not free movement of people between IOM and Europe there would be passport control coming into the Island and a lot less Polish people working here!

 

First link

http://politics.guardian.co.uk/foreignaffa...,714136,00.html

[The Old Git]

First link

http://politics.guardian.co.uk/foreignaffa...,714136,00.html

 

No mention of the Isle of Man or Channel islands though.

 

You're not confusing British Overseas Territories and Crown Dependencies are you?

 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/British_Overseas_Territories

 

The territories of Jersey, Guernsey and the Isle of Man, though also under the sovereignty of the British Crown, have a slightly different constitutional relationship with the United Kingdom, and are consequently classed as Crown dependencies rather than Overseas Territories.

[Tuna Sandwich]

No, British overseas territories are one step further removed from Crown Dependencies. If you follow your wiki link through to Crown Dependencies and Citizenship you will eventially find the following:

 

For nationality purposes, the Channel Islands and Isle of Man are generally treated as part of the United Kingdom.

 

Their are some slight technicalities and exceptions, but basically all citizens of Crown dependencies are entitled to hold a british passport with rights to live and work in Uk and Europe. However, they must surrender their other passport.

 

One interesting point about Jersey, if you are born in Jersey of jersey parents, grand parents etc., but leave Jersey prior to your 20th birthday for a period exceeding 5 years, returning after your 20th birthday, you lose the right to live in Jersey and Jersey citizenship! What an odd place. Very few countries actually deny their birth rights, but Jersey is one.

 

edit: sorry about the spelling and grammar!!!

[The Old Git]

For nationality purposes, the Channel Islands and Isle of Man are generally treated as part of the United Kingdom.

 

We all know that the IOM isn't part of the UK, even though for VAT / Currency / Travel is can be "generally treated" and being part.

 

Their are some slight technicalities and exceptions, but basically all citizens of Crown dependencies are entitled to hold a british passport with rights to live and work in Uk and Europe. However, they must surrender their other passport.

 

As it stands now, I have the right to live, and presumably work, in the UK, but not the EU. The "some slight technicalities and exceptions" seem to be my lack of UK grandparents