The Isle Of Man Is Not The Name Of A Country!

[John Wright]

Can someone explain why a principality cannot be a country?

 

What about Monaco, Andorra, Licenstein

 

or a Duchy, Luxembourg?

 

There is no need to be a kingdom, republic, commonwealth to be a country

 

And returning to the original debate and the Channel Islands

 

Of course they are presently British Islands, in the possesive political sense. They may be the Isles Anglo Normande in the French geographic sense.

 

As for the Atlantic Islands or Northern Atlantic Islands I thought we were in the Western North Atlantic.

 

I cannot see why Rockall is not a British Island, it is part of the UK, although interestingly I cannot see if they come under the Scottish parliament or Westminster, but the Faroese would be up in arms at the description, political or geographic, they can barely stomach Danish

 

As for the history, where did this 1950's independence stuff come from?

 

IOM was independent until about 1265, then came under Scots and then English rule before being granted to the Stanleys, later the Atholls, as an independent Kingdom until 1765. In fact the Athols only sold out their kingship rights in 1765 and stayed on as Governors and as Lords of the Manor until 60 odd years later.

 

For about 45 years all Manx revenues were integrated into UK revenues, until 1866 when the House of Keys became slightly democratic and was allowed to spend some surplus revenue on its own on harbour repairs.

 

The history of the last 140 years has been of a slow advance to full internal self government and the introduction of the common purse agrement marked the end of UK control over our internal finances

 

As for the sports thing I don't understand why at international level in some sports, football as best example, the UK has four affiliations other than they were first to form national organisations, Even federal countries don't have what the UK has historically had! But then you might have to explain why teams located in England play in the Scottish Leagues and some in Wales play in the English Leagues and why in 2006/7 the Isle of Man national team is representing English Regions in the UEFA Rgions Cup at level 7

[The Old Git]

Of course they are presently British Islands, in the possesive political sense.

 

We weren't talking about them being "British Islands", we were talking about them being part of the "British Isles" or not.

 

There is a difference

[mailinator]

The thing to remember here is that the British Isles is purely a geographic term. The name is somewhat controversial because it may be understood to mean these nations have a relationship with Britain - they don't. The term is generally said to include the United Kingdom (England, Wales, Scotland and Northern Ireland), the Isle of Man and the Irish Republic. Often it also includes the Channel Islands although they are not part of the archipelego.

 

The United Kingdom only includes England (with its little islands like the Isle of Wight and Scilly Isles, etc.), Scotland (and all the Scottish islands), Wales (with Anglesey and any other islands) and Northern Ireland. It does not include the Isle of Man or any of the Channel Islands.

 

The term British Islands is generally used with regards to nationality - all Manx and CI people are classed as British Citizens. This term includes the United Kingdom, Isle of Man and Channel Islands.

 

The countries nearby which are part of the E.U. are the Irish Republic and the United Kingdom (along with Gibraltar for some reason). It doesn't include the Isle of Man or Channel Islands.

 

The term country is somewhat confusing also. England, Wales, Scotland and Northern Ireland are sometimes considered to be countries but none of them are Sovereign nations. Equally one might say that Wales and Northern Ireland are provinces.

[localyokel]

Of course they are presently British Islands, in the possesive political sense.

 

We weren't talking about them being "British Islands", we were talking about them being part of the "British Isles" or not.

 

There is a difference

 

We are actually talking postal districts, so that internet firms can get a grasp of the cost to mail. British Isles is a postal district - (ex ) UK - so you can see the logic it places you postally not geographically.

[The Old Git]

But postal districts are often nonsense in "real life"

 

E.g. I often get mail addresses to me in Onchan, Douglas and there's similar examples within the IOM

 

I often use "Isle of Man, United Kingdom" knowing it's geographically and politically incorrect, but it works in getting parcles delivered without them going some weird route to get to me

[localyokel]

But postal districts are often nonsense in "real life"

 

E.g. I often get mail addresses to me in Onchan, Douglas and there's similar examples within the IOM

 

I often use "Isle of Man, United Kingdom" knowing it's geographically and politically incorrect, but it works in getting parcles delivered without them going some weird route to get to me

 

So you accept that all we are doing is making it easier for postmen, geography is meaningless.

[John Wright]

It didn't start off as a discussion of postal districts but of country drop downs. Originally the IOM was not defined as a countryt by ISO, it is now, the latest programme for a country drop down includes the IOM, there are still lots of old drop downs on sites however.

 

British Islands is legally defined in UK and in IOM and includes the UK and the IOM and the Channel Islands. a singular Island member is a British Isle. I accept that is different to the term British Isles as an inclusive geographic description and I think the juty is out ads towhether in comon parlance the CI's are in or out. I accept they are off the coast of France. But then England is off the coast of France and the IOM is off the coast of Cumbria !!

 

I am totally bemused by the confusion this causes to our lawmakers.

 

There are still notices from DoT aboiut the recognition of IOM disqaulifications in the UK still up in the Polce HQ. They say that disqualification foolows home for drivers from the UK and Northern Ireland. I assume they either mean the "UK" or "GB and NI". I susdpect the latter as GB issues licences and NI issues licences not the UK.

 

Still food for thought. As I have a GB and a Manx Licence I must now swap my GB one for a Spanish or Irish one so, if the worst does come I can still drive once off the IOM and out of the UK

[The Old Git]

So you accept that all we are doing is making it easier for postmen, geography is meaningless.

 

I think accurate geography is more important than how the post office want to work. I have correctly given my address as Isle of Man, British Isles before, only to have my parcel go on an extended holiday to the British Virgin Isles

[La_Dolce_Vita]

I refer to the 1950s independence stuff because the Isle of Man cannot be really called independant prior to this time. The 1950s were effectively when devolution took place.

Yes, we had and have the oldest continuous parliament and used to have some quirky laws but up until the 1950s the Legislative Council and especially the House of Keys hardly had any power. I would not call it slow advance. In 1900 the rule of the Island was more on a par with some of the far-off colonies, and I don't mean the Dominions of Canada and Australia. Really it isn't until the 1920s that the ball started to roll with some sort of progress to devolution.

What the Island got in an ability to pay for harbour repairs was significant but hardly began a process of fiscal devolution from that point.

Even prior to the Scots and English taking control it would be incorrect to talk of independence as the Island was for a long time under the sway of the Vikings. It has to be recognised however that the concept of independence makes little sense so long ago as there were no such things as nations.

 

Rockall- It cannot technically be called an island unless it is populated. Nevertheless, I think, some Greenpeace activists actually tried to stay on the rock a few days in order to make claim to it. I think Scotland, Iceland, and Ireland have all made claim to it because of the oil reserves (the important thing) but while it is a rock nobody can make claim to it.

[Politician]

Rather bizarrely, eBay now recognises Jersey and Guernsey as countries, but not the Isle of Man (which is listed under the UK as an "offshore dependency" - as are the Channel Islands, which I suspect our American friends imagine to be something completely different to Jersey and Guernsey). I have written to eBay asking them to clarify this anomaly, as the Isle of Man was upgraded to country status on most lists at the same time as Jersey and Guernsey.

[andrew]

I quite like the Isle of Man coming under the UK on E-Bay otherwise people try and charge me a fortune to post something to me!