localyokel Posted August 8, 2006 Share Posted August 8, 2006 Rember that the reason for closing roads is that the benefit to the Island as a whole outweighs the costs - the financial figures for the TT etc are shrouded in mystery though one poster in another thread has declared, but cannot give figures, that the overall benefit to the Island is positive. The two main car rallies would appear to bring over few tourists - they might give good PR but that needs to feed into tangible benefits not merely that a small but vocal and apparently well connected minority enjoy the sport. I am sorry but good PR is good PR. The PR value to the IOM over the last week can be measured in Millions. Its stupid to try to measure things in hotel beds in this day and age as there are no hotel beds, no tourists come here, and if we relied purely on getting non-business people over we would have been living in caves 10 years ago. These events exist to perpetuate the IOM's image and that is it. Particularly this one were you actually have the PR value of Manx born championship winners. We were desparately trying for Manx born event winners 20 years ago. The new Manx branding message is freedom to flourish and with this event you have young Manx participants who started out as amateurs in this event 15 years ago who are now British Champions. How much flourishing do we expect from future generations? Still all we care about is that bread getting stale. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frances Posted August 8, 2006 Share Posted August 8, 2006 I am sorry but good PR is good PR. The PR value to the IOM over the last week can be measured in Millions. Its stupid to try to measure things in hotel beds in this day and age as there are no hotel beds, no tourists come here, and if we relied purely on getting non-business people over we would have been living in caves 10 years ago. Millions of what ? - as you agree it brings in few or no tourists then I cannot measure the benefit in any tangible way - thus we are arguing a 'feel good' factor, the Island is a great place to live work and invest because you can race your cars around the public roads closed to grannies - maybe it sounds good to some but personally good schools, safe and peaceful countryside seem to figure on more lists I've seen Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
localyokel Posted August 8, 2006 Share Posted August 8, 2006 Millions of what ? - as you agree it brings in few or no tourists then I cannot measure the benefit in any tangible way - thus we are arguing a 'feel good' factor, the Island is a great place to live work and invest because you can race your cars around the public roads closed to grannies - maybe it sounds good to some but personally good schools, safe and peaceful countryside seem to figure on more lists I've seen Millions of pounds we would have had to spend to buy the publicity the Rally got the Island for free. Its a new concept called marketing. If you want to measure tourism in terms of beds the Island is about 15,000 beds short of break even point, and even the film crews have no where to stay so what else do you suggest if you want to see tangible returns. An honesty box at the airport? Have you seen figures for any major event here. No. So lets do nothing. People who complain about "inconvienience" are actually complaining about "effort". Its too much hassle to me personally so lets not do anything and maintain the Islands (new found) status quo. Also you mention schools but its school holiday season so what schools were affected? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gladys Posted August 8, 2006 Share Posted August 8, 2006 I'm holding myself back as I post this, as I have a great respect for you Frances, but the Island cannot be held in a charming age of whatnot, it must move with the times, be it cautiously and with care for all the things that make the IOM what it is. But it must progress, that is without a doubt. The Island has its history, and it is a very important history to these shores, but not elsewhere, really. So we have to accept otherwise unacceptable truths; this Island is much cherished by those that live here, we love its beauty, its heritage and its quirkiness. But none of those factors are sellers outside, so we have to find niches to encourage people to come and stay a while. If that means road closures, then so be it, but at least the road closures for the rallies are temporary. Why not accept these inconveniences as a means to preserve the things we love here? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frances Posted August 8, 2006 Share Posted August 8, 2006 It's getting late - schools per se were not affected, what I said was that good schools affected peoples choice of the Island as a place to live. Re marketing - marketing what ? - the Island as a whole ? to counter bad publicity re tax haven status (which costs others millions)? - I could argue (and have elswhere) that it is the continued emphasis on the Island as Road Race capital of Europe that acts as a feeder to the Island's poor road safety statistics - the finance + film industries rely more on hard economics (tax breaks, low cost regulation and taxes) than on feel good marketing. Hotel beds will return if hoteliers see a possibility of profit but as the operator of the Sefton pointed out some years ago peak loading events such as TT are not attractive - a good conference centre near the Airport might bring in more year round money than any sporting event. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
localyokel Posted August 8, 2006 Share Posted August 8, 2006 It's getting late - schools per se were not affected, what I said was that good schools affected peoples choice of the Island as a place to live. Re marketing - marketing what ? - the Island as a whole ? to counter bad publicity re tax haven status (which costs others millions)? - I could argue (and have elswhere) that it is the continued emphasis on the Island as Road Race capital of Europe that acts as a feeder to the Island's poor road safety statistics - the finance + film industries rely more on hard economics (tax breaks, low cost regulation and taxes) than on feel good marketing. Hotel beds will return if hoteliers see a possibility of profit but as the operator of the Sefton pointed out some years ago peak loading events such as TT are not attractive - a good conference centre near the Airport might bring in more year round money than any sporting event. From your other posts you quote:- Look at the events in Port Erin later this week - the music festival will probably bring more tourist money than the IoM Rally - walking tours (based on the scenery!) could be a consistent and probably year round tourist event So your quite happy to quote unsubstantiated figures yourself if its to justify a more arsey pastime. Plus don't forget that the "tax haven" that in your words "costs others millions" keeps your personal taxes low, and cross subsidises many other things including the arts. You hate motorsport, think the finance sector is fleecing people, and want to bring in conference business when it costs £200 return to fly here from Liverpool. You should stand as MHK in your area. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frances Posted August 8, 2006 Share Posted August 8, 2006 Gladys - sorry posts crossed - if the Rally did bring in tourists that covered its costs (both financial and costs to others) I wouldn't complain, at least I would feel my inconveniences were helping preserve the Island - but I don't think it does justify the amount of road closures, let alone encourage a 3rd such to set up camp - as I mention above I think we need to de-emphasise the road racing - if you read the TT sub text in the adverts it is 'come here and race your own bikes on our unrestricted roads' - closure of the mountain road to allow filming of high speed car driving also gives IMO a wrong signal, likewise emphasis on rallying on public (albeit closed) roads - just because it involves motor racing it doesn't mean that this is the only way to encourage tourists. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gladys Posted August 8, 2006 Share Posted August 8, 2006 It is getting late, but I have to respond to your points. Tax haven status? I think we are trying to get rid of that nomenclature, pity you can't look at other jurisdictions before decrying the IOM. I personally vascillate on this particular subject, but I am now coming down more on the safe haven view. You are right, some of the structures which have been reported have cost millions to the relevant jurisdiction, but who put together the schemes? Not the IOM, but advisers in the originating country. Roads: The poor accident record is entirely due to a lack of proper enforcement of existing rules and regulations. I see, daily, traffic offences that would have been clamped down on in the UK, to the extent that a driver would not even consider doing what is prohibited. But here? There is no enforcement, so there is no culture of observance, just "you can get away with it so do it". I cannot comment on the film industry, but if it relies upon hard economics, rather than the "soft tax haven" isn't it to be welcomed? Hotel beds will only return if there is an influx of people wanting them! I like your idea of a conference centre next to the airport, but why not anywhere else on the Island, it is very small. Peaks and troughs? Well, isn't that something any business would like not to have to deal with? At least we know the likely peaks and troughs here! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LoneWolf Posted August 8, 2006 Share Posted August 8, 2006 Millions of pounds we would have had to spend to buy the publicity the Rally got the Island for free. Its a new concept called marketing. Its an advantage if marketing matches the reality. I have a little difficulty seeing the benefits we have gained from hosting the rally .. but Im prepared to accept what you are saying. However, like Frances, I really do think far too many roads were closed simultaneously this weekend. Maybe the stages were badly planned? Im no expert on rallies but I dont remember similar events causing so much inconvenience previously. What is the point of marketing the Island if its impossible to move about it? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tempus Fugit Posted August 9, 2006 Share Posted August 9, 2006 Re: the rally, there always used to be main roads open to get around the Island, you may have to take a slight diversion, (like peel - st johns - kirk michael), the DoT and police would surely object at the route planning stage if the place was likely to get gridlocked (like the TT !). [The early days of the 'Trophy' rally started at 6pm on friday, ran through until about 5am, then resumed 9am saturday] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frances Posted August 9, 2006 Share Posted August 9, 2006 Gladys - let me clarify a few points - I'm not against all the 'Finance' industry though recognise that it offers opportunities for activities that are rightfully illegal (eg money laundering, tax evasion - both of which have seen much effort by the FSA to eradicate them). Nor am I against motorsport (in moderation) - longer ago than I care to think, I used to ride a Honda CB72 (on a full licence), acquired from a brother who crashed it and himself) Re the SPCo - all companies aim to achieve a monopoly situation - the IoMSPCo in its long history was not against underarm techniques to maintain its own monopoly, however as its directors and majority shareholders having other business interests their 'enlightened self-interest' saw it run in a way that was generally for the Island's benefit (though there were attempts post WW1 to asset strip which was defeated by playing the Manx nationalist card). Judging from the price paid the Seaco sold it at too low a price - the Australian investment bank are no strangers to ferry companies, running one to the Isle of Wight - I would expect to see the Ben with its stable and profitable freight business hived off in some way from the troublesome and highly seasonable fast craft operation. But as you point out Government needs to control such monopolies - the old thought that air travel acted as a natural restraint no longer applies. The timing of the Rally on what was the old August Bank holiday weekend (still a bank holiday in Repulic of Ireland) which traditionally was one of the busiest for bucket and sand families is somewhat strange to me - if it was out of season it could utilise otherwise vacant hotel beds and competete for more available sea crossings. When I get back to library research mode I'll go and check the papers to see just how much the road closures have increased over the last few years but I don't recall the closures in previous years being as anything like as widespread. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
When Skies Are Grey Posted August 9, 2006 Share Posted August 9, 2006 Without wantintg to hijack this thread in to a pro/anti Rally debate...the road closures orders do have to be passed through the DoT and the organisers are alwys mindful of blocking off arterial roads. Closures are always kept to an absolute minumum in terms of the stage running time and as much advance notice as realistically possible is given. It is usually very unlikely that any one place is completely unaccessible and even then its only for a maximum for a few hours each day. In terms of exposure then I guess unless you are in the sport you dont realise the profile that the IOM has. There is an hour long programme on Sky and Men & Motors, season-end DVDs both of the Rally itself and also within the main Championship and masses amounts of column inches in the motoring press and web sites. The IOM is well represented at the highest level with Mark Higgins, Martin Rowe and Rob Fagg all competing at the very highest level, all proudly showing the three legs on their cars/helmets. I appreciate that this is not to the taste of all. Personally I could do without the TT and Grand Prix but do appreciate that they bring a lot of enjoyment to a lot of people. I am happy to have a minor incovenience of a few road closures during the year to live on an Island that has a rich motorsport heritage and acts in furtherance of that heritage. If however you wish to continue to squeeze any fun left out of the short life that we all have then crack on..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skig Posted August 10, 2006 Share Posted August 10, 2006 How hard can it be to get a new gearbox fitted? I guess it's not your average gearbox that you can just pick of the shelf, and conditions can be a bit cramped at times.. SuperSeaCat at Ship-Technology.com The thing has 4 turbocharged diesel engines - I bet it's kind to the environment as well The engines were made on Merseyside,but have to be sent to Germany to be repaired! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Amadeus Posted August 10, 2006 Share Posted August 10, 2006 The engines were made on Merseyside,but have to be sent to Germany to be repaired! The obvious choice when you want something done properly... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skig Posted August 10, 2006 Share Posted August 10, 2006 The engines were made on Merseyside,but have to be sent to Germany to be repaired! The obvious choice when you want something done properly... They are taking their bloody time to fix it though. Perhaps they will send a Skoda engine back in part exchange !! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Archived
This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.