Positive Action Group Meeting

[Charles Flynn]

I have given a precis of last night's meeting of the PAG in My Blog.

 

Some of you may like to comment on what was said - incompetent politicians, untrained civil servants etc. -

allegedly!

[Static]

Can you give a link to your blog please.

[Albert Tatlock]

Yet another PAG exercise in stating the obvious. How do the PAG expect to do something about all these points if they do not form a coherent political force (party)? IMHO the PAG has just turned into another talk shop - without a decent leadership that could make any difference.

 

Current politicians are encouraged to turn up at these meetings and state they agree things need to change - yet these are the very same politicians who have been in power for at least 5 years and have had the opportunity to change things - and have barely, or in most cases not, even tried. Many of the issues identified by the PAG e.g. forecasting for infrastructure projects - could have already been implemented as departmental policy and do not require 'governmental' decisions.

 

By now PAG should have presented at least 20 top people all singing predominately the same tune and ready to stand to change things. IMHO, with barely three months to go to the general election, PAG is doing too little too late. Conspiracy theorists might be excused for believing PAG is simply a front for the perception that these important issues are being discussed and dealt with. Personally, I believe it will be 'business as normal' as from December.

[simon]

Thanks for that, Charles. Would it be possible for you to provide a bit more information at your blog? about who exactly said what?

 

For example which " one of the budding MHK's present spoke about the need for civil service final salary pension schemes to disappear to be replaced by a money purchase scheme for the 9,000 government employees ? " And which " others mentioned the lack of professionally qualified accountants in the Treasury " ?

 

When you write about the "conclusions" of the meeting .... well how were these agreed? Was there a motion and a vote ? Who was present and in what capacities?

[manxman8180]

Personally it sounds like a load of unmanageable sound bites, from publicity seeking wannabees.

 

Stuart McCudden attacking others for being 'self-publicists' and 'character assassinators' - Ever heard of people in glass houses Stuart?

 

On the one hand talking about the lack of people from industry entering Government and then, on the other hand, talking about removing the only major incentive left for joining public service. (The Final Salary pension scheme)

 

Maybe they should rebrand as the Passive Action Group.

[nipper]

It seems there are a few people who want more details about what happened and what was said and by whom. I am interested in what PAG are about although don't really want to be a part of them or support them. I take politics seriously and would like to know a bit more too.

 

A neighbour of mine went along to the meeting out of curiosity and to keep interest took notes. One of the politicians present was overheard to suggest, in his direction, that some people should 'get a life'.

 

mmhhhhh

[Charles Flynn]

Long time getting back to you as I have been busy walking around Glen Maye and Niarbyl! It's nice to get some fresh air.

 

The link Static is under Blogs at this Forum - under my name.

 

AT - Albert I agree - did seem to be a lot of negative talk rather than positive. Flavour of the evening I'm afraid.

 

Simon - Mike Coleman standing in Douglas North is advocating the demise of the Final Salary scheme.

 

Joe Duffy Treasurer of PAG mentioned the lack of qualified people in the Treasury.

 

The conclusions were basically a general assent from those present aboutthe need for Local Government Reform (Alex Downie wants 5 LA's, others wanted less) and the direct elections of Legco as a result of political comments from John Shimmin, Alex Downie and declared candidates Tony Wright (Rushen), Mike Coleman (Douglas North) and Geoffrery Boot (Glenfaba) and members of PAG. It may be some of them had differing opinions but I didn't hear any. Roger Tomlinson Chaired the meeting and Jeff Garland gave the vote of thanks.

 

There was talk of Peter Murcott perhaps contesting Douglas West with Shimmin and Corkish.

[%age]

It seems that at some point they had been discussing the intellectual ability of our politicians (compared I assume to the cream of the Island - they themselves the 'business' people) and how some of our current politicians would be far from an asset to the Isle of Man when representing us abroad etc. I believe at various stages there were thinly veiled references to one or two MHKs.

 

A little while later one of the present Politicians got up and spoke a lorra political speak hot air.

 

Had it been a TV comedy sketch then perhaps it would have been quite funny but apparently the meeting wasn't televised for a future Isle of Man Film Industry produced series or anything like that.

[Celt]

Nice Blog Charles and a good read.

 

The main problem with, "the business community " in my eyes is that it doesn't get asked enough or be wanted to contibute to much in the say of any Projects or Policies.

 

To many times some MHK or MLC who has a " Small Business background " is being asked to either Vote or put in place some policy they don't have the skills or knowledge to do so. Yet they don't admit it.

 

If you have your own small Business, Common sense gets you through most problems but if not you would ask someone who could help. However once alot of these people get elected they seem to forget the common sense approuch, possibly through arogance, yet the repercussions of something going wrong are alot greater and effect more people than it would if it was their small business.

 

The present status of the Isle of Man is because of the Proffesional business community, imo, not because of the Government yet any advice seems to be asked from an outside source, the UK, which lacks Common Sense.

 

I've worked for myself for nearly 30yrs and have and still do employ people who depend on me getting it right. My approuch and the advice I give to people who are starting up for themselves is that if you need help don't be afraid to ask and don't ask to late. The smart thing is to know who to ask and what question. And you're only as good as the people who work for you and never take things for granted. Common Sense in my view.

 

Maybe Tynwald should take a long look at themselves and then look at the " Business Community" and ask themselves who has achieved what?

 

I've actually asked Stuart MaCudden on a few occasions for advice and found him very helpful. If he couldn't help he always passed me on to someone who did. I personally would always take the time to listen to him even if i didn't fully agree with what he says.

[localyokel]

Simon - Mike Coleman standing in Douglas North is advocating the demise of the Final Salary scheme

.

 

Sounds like suicide given most who live in that ward work for Government (inc. Civil Service, Fire Service etc) or the Corpy. They'd have to be the dumbest people imaginable to vote him in with that as a stated goal. If you want to succeed in a public vote you don't go out to deliberately piss off 30% of the electorate.

 

Joe Duffy Treasurer of PAG mentioned the lack of qualified people in the Treasury.

What are his qualifications? Sounds like some other numpty accusing others of a lack of professionalism.

 

There was talk of Peter Murcott perhaps contesting Douglas West with Shimmin and Corkish.

Sounds like a dream ticket to me, I wouldn't want to underwrite his deposit

[Moghrey Mie]

It seems there are a few people who want more details about what happened and what was said and by whom. I am interested in what PAG are about although don't really want to be a part of them or support them. I take politics seriously and would like to know a bit more too.

 

A neighbour of mine went along to the meeting out of curiosity and to keep interest took notes. One of the politicians present was overheard to suggest, in his direction, that some people should 'get a life'.

 

mmhhhhh

 

Maybe you should go to the meetings and find out what really happens rather than relying on Charles to 'report ' it for you

[LoneWolf]

Nice Blog Charles and a good read.

 

The main problem with, "the business community " in my eyes is that it doesn't get asked enough or be wanted to contibute to much in the say of any Projects or Policies.

 

To many times some MHK or MLC who has a " Small Business background " is being asked to either Vote or put in place some policy they don't have the skills or knowledge to do so. Yet they don't admit it.

 

If you have your own small Business, Common sense gets you through most problems but if not you would ask someone who could help. However once alot of these people get elected they seem to forget the common sense approuch, possibly through arogance, yet the repercussions of something going wrong are alot greater and effect more people than it would if it was their small business.

 

The present status of the Isle of Man is because of the Proffesional business community, imo, not because of the Government yet any advice seems to be asked from an outside source, the UK, which lacks Common Sense.

 

I've worked for myself for nearly 30yrs and have and still do employ people who depend on me getting it right. My approuch and the advice I give to people who are starting up for themselves is that if you need help don't be afraid to ask and don't ask to late. The smart thing is to know who to ask and what question. And you're only as good as the people who work for you and never take things for granted. Common Sense in my view.

 

Maybe Tynwald should take a long look at themselves and then look at the " Business Community" and ask themselves who has achieved what?

 

I've actually asked Stuart MaCudden on a few occasions for advice and found him very helpful. If he couldn't help he always passed me on to someone who did. I personally would always take the time to listen to him even if i didn't fully agree with what he says.

 

Excellent advice Im sure.

Just one question really, didnt the MEA do something along those lines [experienced businessmen with long and impressive track records] ? We all know what happened there.

The public service requires people with public service experience and with all due respect there arent many businessmen about who fit that particular prerequisite.

[Charles Flynn]

Richard Branson once said "Businessmen should stick to business and leave politics to politicians".

 

Well of course politics is everyone's business. I for one would hate Tynwald to be made up of 100% business people. There are many other issues which need attention and we need politicians of integrity and humanity to deal with them.

[Celt]

Just one question really, didnt the MEA do something along those lines [experienced businessmen with long and impressive track records] ? We all know what happened there.

 

I understand what you mean and where your're coming from LoneWolf. However, any decent/sensible Employer wouldn't just leave who he delegated in charge to run things without in some way overseeing what was happening and how the Company was being ran. If you don't then you shouldn't be supprised if Staff start dipping their hands in the Till. But then I've always paid my Staff enough and over the minimum wage so hopefully they don't need to steal. However you still cannot account for greed. I did mention that this would only account for decent/sensible employers though.

 

So I think what I said could still stand it's merits.

[%age]

It seems to me that a lot of the business people want the Island to be run for them, and (with the help of PAG now) by them as well.

 

They know better of course and need to 'educate' these Manxies how to run their Island.

 

It is about time PAG & Co. learnt that there are other people in this society. People who don't spend their lives chasing money money money, going to clubby clubby dinners and generally getting on the old ego booster.

 

In Pag & Co there is a selfish ignorant attitude. It borders on the fascistic. PAG and their followers have little regard for the average Manx person other than to sneer at their Parish Pump Politics and laugh at their Parochial Politicians.

 

If PAG and their cohorts don't particularly like the way politics is over here - then tough. It is what it is. Hello and welcome but don't try to take over.

 

We may not have the super dooper politicians that PAG aspire to but I'm damned sure I'd rather have what we have got (yeah - all those warts and all) than a group of ignorant right wing fascists taking over and kicking the Manx right into touch once and for all.

 

The Manx people will be here a long, long, time after some of these characters have up sticks to find their next Tax Haven.

 

Oh, and don't tell me about your token Manx member who also happens to be a women. I've not heard a peep out of her yet.