Terror Plot Puts Uk On Full Alert

[Chinahand]

Thought this article from New Scientist was interesting.

 

The plotters "planned to carry liquids and detonators disguised as beverages, electronics and other devices," said Chertoff. A US intelligence official told Reuters the alleged plot was believed to have involved sophisticated liquid explosives and battery triggers possibly stored in alarm clocks, laptop computers and calculators.

 

The most obvious liquid explosive would be one containing nitrates, azides, or nitro-containing compounds, experts say. “For example, nitroglycerine could have been used, or any one of the hundreds of azides,” explosives expert Ivan Vince of ASK Consultants told New Scientist.

 

These types of compounds could be prepared easily in a home-setting, and are stable enough to be transported in hand luggage onto a plane, he says.

 

A baby bottle-sized volume would have the explosive potential to blow up a plane, although it would need to be detonated, Vince says. Detonators, though, can be tiny. In 2001, Richard Reid, the so-called "London shoe bomber" smuggled a very small detonator onto a passenger jet in the heel of his shoe.

 

And making passengers taste baby milk may not provide complete security as many nitro-containing liquid explosives have low toxicity. “Indeed, some are used as drugs – nitroglycerine is used for angina”, Vince says.

...

 

Their rationale is to evade widely installed airport scanners which are geared mainly to detecting nitrogen-containing materials. “They’ve been looking at materials such as peroxides, which can be used as stand-alone explosives or oxidisers to detonate other materials,” says Wilkinson director of the Centre for the Study of Terrorism and Political Violence at the University of St Andrews in Fife, UK.

 

An example is the oxygen-rich liquid, triacetone triperoxide, which can be synthesised from materials available from high-street drug stores. Wilkinson says it has been used in several bombs exploded in Israel by the Palestinian organisation Hamas. “You’d need to detonate it, but could possibly conceal the detonator in a body space that’s difficult to detect,” he told New Scientist.

 

Wilkinson says that efforts to diversify away from nitrogenous explosives were pioneered as early as the mid-1990s by the jailed terrorist, Ramsay Youssef, mastermind of the bombing beneath the World Trade Center in 1993.

 

During his trial in 1997, Youssef was found to have concocted a plot in 1995 to bring down 12 US airliners over a two-day period over the US West coast area. The plot was discovered in 1995 on his computer in Manila by Philippine intelligence agents.

 

According to Wilkinson, Youssef developed ways of assembling otherwise innocent-seeming bomb components in-flight. In 1994, the procedure almost brought down a Philippine airlines plane when a bomb made this way exploded prematurely, but the pilot managed to land the damaged plane safely, despite the loss of one passenger sucked through the hole created by the bomb.

[lectro]

Well with all the increased security, now is possibly the safest time to travel by air. Actually I've never felt threatened flying. I was supposed to fly to Florida on 10/11 but my flight was cancelled. If it hadn't been I still would have gone. I'm flying tomorrow. No worries. The delays are a pain in ass, and despite all the coverage you'll still get idiots trying to check in with hand luggage and causing a delay.

 

What about Duty Free? Does it mean that you can't take that with you? What if you buy a book or magazine or sweets from the shop before boarding?

 

I've always thought that the weak link in security was Duty free anyway. They're often after all the security checks and scans. So off you go to get your litre of 70% alcohol, novelty lighter and 40kg of combustible material (the Sunday Times) before you board.

 

A determined group could get someone working in the Duty Free supply and someone in the retail part and someone to buy the smuggled whatever to take on board.

 

But hey there's a million ways to die and that's the least likely way.

[The Old Git]

What about Duty Free? Does it mean that you can't take that with you? What if you buy a book or magazine or sweets from the shop before boarding?

 

I believe all airside shops are closed at Heathrow

[Tugger]

Someone flew over from Liverpool today and had to discard their magazine before boarding. No problem having no reading materials for 25 mins, but for a medium or long haul flight???

[stookie]

What Blair (and Bush) would love is to strike a bit of fear into as many people as possible (look at the 'sheep' making comments on the TV tonight) as that way it's much easier to control them and introduce unpopular ideas such as ID cards, more surveillance, detention without due process, et al.

 

What industry gets away with treating their customers as badly as the air travel industry? None that I can think of.

 

If the terrorists are so determined (and they sure are portrayed as such) then presumably all this home chemistry stuff can be detonated in a suitcase as well as on a plane - it isn't at all far fetched that fluids are mixed 'by clockwork' triggered by something like, say, an altimeter. All these rules do is tell the terrorists what they shouldn't do if they don't want to get caught!

 

Thing is, this won't be solved without dealing with the root cause of the problem and, thanks to our Tony and his lapdog ways, Britain is now a little adjunct to the most hated nation on earth, so a solution is as far away now as you could possibly imagine. Until that day comes, if ever, we've got to put up with this cr*p.

 

BTW does anyone realise valuables aren't covered by travel insurance if they're put in the hold? Check the small print. Anyone ever had anything damaged while in a suitcase? There's going to be a lot more of that and you probably won't be insured!

 

I also see this as a thieve's charter. Anyone on here ever had anything stolen at a baggage carousel? I have and it's dead easy when you think about it. A suggestion to all would be scallies - when you arrive at your destination, get a trolley and load it with as many suitcases as you can manage now there's bound to be something valuable in there. Hang around the baggage carousels as long as you like just picking them off before the hapless owners realise they're missing or even get through the queues at immigration (especially good in the US where you are held up there for ages) - if you get challenged, just apologise and hand it back as an innocent mistake. If you don't want to deal with all that bulk, go to the loos and rifle through the cases before dumping them in a quiet corner and starting all over again

 

Glad I got that off my chest - that's been building up all day!

[localyokel]

It struck me that those pictures of houses raided on news at 6 were all of nicely appointed council houses on the outskirts of large UK cities or council flats in central London.

 

When is the UK going to stop being not only a hot bed for aspiring terrorists but a provider of safe secure tax subsidised homes from which these people can plot their evil.

 

You get your council house, a grant to buy your PC, and the next minute your online ordering Semtex from Pakistan.

 

No wonder people are getting angry.

[Theskeat]

Duty free can not be brought on board any aircraft, no magazines, papers, kids toys.

 

At Manchester airport today Asian/Muslims passengers were refused to fly due to complaints by other passengers that they would not board the aircraft if the Asians/Muslims did. I would do the same, On any flight to the USA now, how safe would you feel.

[islander]

EuroManx check-in times have been extended to 90mins prior to departure for Isle of Man to UK flights and 2hours before for UK to Isle of Man flights.

 

a bit of over reaction......?

 

is any other airline increasing the mandotary check in time. i think others are issuing general advice "check in early"......which is rather differnet to euromanx's policy.

 

bear in mind you may face penalty if you miss check in deadline.......

 

Just for clarification. Check-in will open as per the above times (90 minutes for IOM & 2 hrs for UK airports). This does not mean that you have to complete check-in that early - however our best advice is to allow plenty of time especially in the UK.

 

John Seymour

CEO

EuroManx

[localyokel]

On any flight to the USA now, how safe would you feel.

 

I'm flying to the States soon and looked at cancelling today. I'm not overly bothered about the security risk but I really cannot be arsed with the hassle factor of flying virtually naked and then getting 3 hours of grief from some illegal immigrant in a uniform asking me why I am flying there and checking my record out for speeding fines etc. I tend to find that a three hour interview followed by a hand up my arse is a really poor way of unwinding after saving up thousands of pounds to go in the first place.

 

I'm sorry but America is just too much hassle. I really cannot be bothered anymore.

 

Its interesting that it seems only US carriers were to be targetted again. Another thing worth noting if you have to go on business.

[Mission]

I've already had someone in today buying a seethrough plastic zip pouch for her son to put his passport and wallet in for when he goes travelling!

 

I'm just so glad the security forces caught this before a disaster occured - I shudder to think of the devastation that could have been caused by this latest threat.

[ans]

At Manchester airport today Asian/Muslims passengers were refused to fly due to complaints by other passengers that they would not board the aircraft if the Asians/Muslims did. I would do the same, On any flight to the USA now, how safe would you feel.

 

So you would refuse to board a plane because your fellow passengers were of a certain colour or appearance? It's all bubbling to the surface recently for you eh?

[Do the Navan Walk]

Possibly a load political of BS to take the heat off Afghan and Iraq and the fact B & B won't intervene in the Israel affair.

 

Without doubt a major over reaction.

 

All luggage was supposed to be scanned and if you were suspect you had your bits examined. But do not fear everything is now in hand as all will be put in the cargo hold out of site and mind and we can all now put to use those zip freezer bags we once thought would be very useful.

 

All the Best

[germann]

This 'plaggy bag only' policy, if long-term or permanent, could have major implications on our travel habits.

 

 

No duty free? Oh dear. Expect landing fees to go through the roof. BAA will have to cover the lost revenue from their high rents, and more for greed's sake. I suppose a 'collect on returning' offer would be safe enough, but $$$ will be lost on impulse purchases.

 

Also, will they revise the already stingy baggage weight limits to incorporate the lack of hand-luggage? Most modern luggage weighs 3kg+ when empty.

 

Long-haul flights will now become even more fecking boring, despite the in-flight 'entertainment' which usually consists of little more than a couple of eps of Mr Bean and the Hollywood blockbuster that you've been avoiding since its release.

 

And imagine women not being able to re-paint their faces prior to departure gate/take-off/in-flight meal/landing. Air rage!!!

[stookie]

and your valuables aren't insured when given to the airline carrier for the hold

[slinkydevil]

and your valuables aren't insured when given to the airline carrier for the hold

 

That's twice you've said that on the same page! You're right but if the regulations on travel change that is likely to change with Insurance policies too. So far it's a temporary measure that has been brought in overnight to avert a possible terrorist plot - get over it.