The Eskimos Like Them

[arronc]

I guess one problem is that the more you help in terms with infrastructure in music, the more you tend to focus the participants down a rather narrow vector.

 

If there is one thing that I find odd about the manx music scene in general, is that is manages to create its own monoculture of indie rock, which is good, but is also very isolated within the broader context of modern music.

 

Its like battle of the bands competitions : you can always predict what the winner will sound like, because of the artificial criterea imposed on them to participate.

 

I think you see it on this forum too, with the growing gap between club culture, and the local live music scene : there dosnt seem to be much interaction at all, which seems pretty strange to me.

 

Obviously, my own perceptions are probably a bit skewed due to my own personal experiances, but there is a argument that in terms of progression, how much mileage is left in rock music ? There has already been a lot of it recorded, and its difficult to see what could be added by any new band starting up with a standard drums/bass/guitar/vocals line up. Making it easier to acheive the logistics of forming and operating a 5 peice band is unlikely to improve the quality of the output simply by making the barrier to entry lower.

 

In the electronic world, cheaper synths and computers which are easier to program and maintain clearly hasnt had much impact on the general quality of electonic music (other than peolples' demos have less hiss on them since cheapo digital became available).

 

Music is an ideas game, and I dont realy see what you could easily be done to make better songs/records to export.

 

In terms of marketing, I can sometimes see the point of having a central source to promote music as a community, but in real life ive never seen this work :

 

in 2003, it became clear that one record label we were signed to were over-allocated in terms of how many bands they had signed, over the amount of resources they had to promote them, and we left and joined a kind of "artists collective" type label. The idea was that they would provide release resources to bands who sign/aligned to them, and would be able to get liscencing, combine advertising, promotion etc.

 

What actually happened was they ended up with dregs of the electronic scene they were trying to promote, and put out enough rubbish releases to kill themselves dead within 4 months. Luckily, they imploded before releaseing any of our material, and we signed and released on a more convential label in the end.

 

But the same thing would be likely to happen to any community based project : the bands that would require the services the most would be the ones least able to stand on their own two feet, and those who could do so would probably not participate long term. So what you end up with is a community of second rate bands youre obliged to support, as it a pre-requisite of the charter.

[ans]

Can we please try to keep this thread focussed on the wider issues, rather than specific likes or dislikes about one particular band.

 

If you want a TA thread, go make one in Music. You can bang your drum in there.

 

If people can't avoid the personal attacks, we might have to close this thread due to complaints which is a shame as there are some excellent posts in here about the bigger picture.

 

Just bumping this to Page 3.

[Gladys]

Kind of makes you want to ask ' what is rock'?

 

Rock is what pushes your head back against the chair that you are sitting in with your headphones on and then YOU LISTEN.

 

You give the full span of attention because you do not want to miss a beat; you don't want to be transported 'to another plane'; you just want to be right there, right now!

 

When the fuzzy electronics can confidently take over the Gillan scream then I'm home doing macrame!

[phred]

At last, a proper discussion without the personal jibes which was the point I was trying to make in the first place. I totally agree with ans.

I have no problem with sports people receiving funding for their efforts [you obviously have some kind of personal interest in this area Conceptor Hewitt] but it was recently suggested that a certain amount of taxpayer's money should be automatically given to local sports. The point I was making here is that, if money was going to be allocated from taxes for this kind of thing then I would prefer MY tax money to go towards setting up more facilities for young musicians.

TA are not MY band, they are friends and if you see friends being unfairly represented on a public forum then you do your best to redress the balance [at least I do]. And yes CH, my comments are total fact and not just opinion based on uninformed perception.

I don't know what your problem is with TA Gladys but now you've stopped the insults we are actually in agreement over the wider picture of more facilities for young people in music. I think it's something that might be addressed in the near future and I think anything that encourages young people to take up a hobby is worth doing. I'd be interested to hear what other people think might be done in this area and how it might be funded.

[Declan]

I guess one problem is that the more you help in terms with infrastructure in music, the more you tend to focus the participants down a rather narrow vector.

 

If there is one thing that I find odd about the manx music scene in general, is that is manages to create its own monoculture of indie rock, which is good, but is also very isolated within the broader context of modern music.

 

 

I agree mostly with what you say, I was wrong to say rock in my earlier post when really I meant popular music. I don't see the barriers between rock, electronica, folk, jazz etc as that being that great - there's plenty of interesting music on the cusp of two or more of types, and many great artists (Beck, Costello etc) who leap between a few.

 

And isn't that how people listen to music nowadays --> certainly looking at my last 100 plays it has folk, country, electronica, punk, garage rock, blues, post-rock and rock.

 

However, I think your death of guitar/bass/drums pronouncements are wrong. 5 years ago I'd have agreed with you, then I'd say my record buying was 33% new guitar based 33% new beats/electronica based and 33% old stuff. I was expecting the "twiiddly stuff" to come to the fore, but now it is that music that is looking old hat and in need of new ideas, while new and interesting guitar based music comes my way weekly.

 

You are probably right in saying there are no giant steps left for guitar, bass, drums to make in isolation. But there are still plenty of great songs to be written and played in this format and plenty of great bands to emerge. Maybe a case of doing something established better rather than doing something novel.

 

But I feel the novel innovative music (which my preferrence is for over a great reinterpretation of what's gone before) is coming from people with the traditional guitar based background. It still uses guitars but increasingly is using other instruments (including electronica) alongside the guitars and drawing inspiration and stealling from other art forms.

 

What I meant earlier was I want to see is a more supportive, nurturing environment for all types of popular music and I hope these would lead to a more collobrative cross pollination of the genres. I'm probably hankering for the untainable, but I'd like to see a Manx equilvant of Gram Parsons "Cosmic American Music". A Manx music that is less bothered by external acclaim but is great on its own terms.

[Gladys]

I don't know what your problem is with TA Gladys but now you've stopped the insults we are actually in agreement over the wider picture of more facilities for young people in music.

 

Funny, I don't think I have displayed an irrational dislike for TA, I have said consistently that they are not my cup of tea but wish them all the best. I have also commented on their public presentation at one time; now that is undoubtedly how they were projected and instead of barking at those who were at the receiving end of that particular PR cock up, you should be barking at the brains behind it!

 

In any case, if you think that is insulting, wait until I really get going!

[phred]

Whatever.....I'm still interested to hear people's opinions on possible facilities for young local bands to practise in etc.

[localyokel]

If people can't avoid the personal attacks, we might have to close this thread due to complaints which is a shame as there are some excellent posts in here about the bigger picture.

 

All this stuff is brilliant - given lots of the posts that get made here about MHK's, the Corkills, and other Manx issues its plain embarrassing to have posts pulled relating to a band or threats to close threads purely because people mention that 1. They don't think they are very good and 2. that have tried to court controversy by insinuating that some of the members might not be interested in men.

 

Some people should develop a thicker skin, grow up and stop buying into their own hype.

 

You didn't pull any of the BNP stuff and that got very abusive.

 

The thread started off by suggesting their gigs should be subsidised by the taxpayer in someway, so is anyone surprised the thread developed as it did? If people don't think they are any good they are hardly going to support assistance when other Manx people pursuing off Island careers get nothing.

 

If people are that offended they should grow up, and think what other people criticised on these forums think. Particularly certain MHK's who are abused regularly but don't resort to bleating about it.

[phred]

[localyokel]

 

Yeah .... thats all you can say in reply.

 

Grow up.

[phred]

[ans]

Grow up.

 

Considering you're the only one who's had a post removed, due to the childish nature of the language used, I suggest you take some of your own advice. Then stop posting in this thread.

[Dippity Doo]

Heyy people of the forum

 

it seem that when the last dippity doo carnival was on ( carnival parade ) I said Twisted Sisters and I see it is Twisted Angel that these girls are called. They are welcome on carnival parade next time too along with all people and all music bands on the Island. I have seen girls play and it was fun and I think they will look good ingrass skirts too for carnival parade

 

There are too many people here have a long face!!! Remember at Beach Club and Sunshine Corner we used to sing:

 

Never have a face like coffee pot,

Coffee pot am long and thin

Always have a face like the teapot

because teapot it is round (I fogotten the words here)

 

(The action song included doing the spout but they might think today that Dippity Doo is a bit dippity doo if he went round with arm like a tea pot spout)

 

Maybe The Twisted Angel girls can punk this song up and we will have break in samba for some punk at carnival parade next time.

 

So all remember to remove poker or long broom handel from backside and do away with long face and we can all then be happy

[localyokel]

Considering you're the only one who's had a post removed, due to the childish nature of the language used, I suggest you take some of your own advice. Then stop posting in this thread.

 

Theres been a lot more childish posts by many people, there have been a lot more nasty posts on these boards, there are posts from the last week accusing people like Dandara of burning buildings down, and accusing Julie Corkill of virtually everything.

 

As i say people should perhaps get a life and develop a thick skin if they want a career in the public gaze because if they can't take a bit of criticism they picked the wrong media to make a living in.

 

I think the issue is more to do about Google than anything else. No point in having things critical of anyone posted when you need the publicity and someone does not want "Twisted Angels" to be linked to anything critical on Google. Lets be honest about it, most of the search results are forum postings

[Conceptor Hewitt]

TA are not MY band, they are friends and if you see friends being unfairly represented on a public forum then you do your best to redress the balance [at least I do]. And yes CH, my comments are total fact and not just opinion based on uninformed perception.

 

I'd like to make it clear that this post is MY opinion and nothing to do with TA except that I know them and didn't think it was fair that they were being slagged off for things they are not guilty of.

 

Make up your mind...

 

I have no problem with sports people receiving funding for their efforts [you obviously have some kind of personal interest in this area Conceptor Hewitt]

 

Strange as it may seem, none whatsoever.

 

Sport has always been a national cultural exchange alongside armed invasion and religious dogma. It fosters links between countries (hostile and otherwise) It is a government's way of swinging their dick around, so they tend to promote it's development - and it's popular. It usually entails a team or individuals in their particular country's colours participating in an event where one will win and one will lose (or come second) - it's a contest.

 

Pop music has tended to be a form of self expression - and as we've read here very much a matter of personal taste.

There are as many styles of music as there are of the types of people playing it. To treat both activities the same would mean putting on battles of bands and having the participants competing with other areas, but it wouldn't work because the outcome would not be dependent on skill or talent, it would be dependent on the personal taste of the judges. I really can't see how anyone can "win" a band competition, excepting where someone obviously cannot play.

 

Having government involvement in any form of youthful self expression is a road you really wouldn't want to go down. We've seen the way the Dixie Chicks have been vilified for their pokes at Bush. What would have happened if they had had some sort of government sponsorship, I wonder.

I see Kasabian are being sponsored by the Sun on their British tour. It makes me wonder what could happen should they fall foul of one of the UKs biggest opinion makers.

 

I think the best route for any young muso is to do what generations of us have done. If you really are that passionate, do you really need a 300 quid mobile? Do you really need corporate names on your clothes?

You could get the guitar/drums/keyboard/pa if you really wanted it - and if you had to struggle to buy it, then you would cherish it. Having it all set up and handed to you on a plate give the impression that you have a right to it: but you don't.