Longtails On The Radio

[Mission]

I was most amused today to hear the newsreader on EnergyFM refer to our rodent friends as 'longtails' in her report and not rats.

 

Did anyone else hear it?

 

I did a big LOL at the time.

 

[mollag]

I do recall MR playing "i dont like mondays" by the Boomtowm Longtails, seemed ok at the time.

The word never particulrly bothered me but i knew plenty that it did, does anyone still dislike "the word?"

[Fleur]

quote name=mission

I was most amused today to hear the newsreader on EnergyFM refer to our rodent friends as 'longtails' in her report and not rats.

Sad I know, but I don't even see anything odd in this.

I do recall MR playing "i dont like mondays" by the Boomtowm Longtails, seemed ok at the time.

The word never particulrly bothered me but i knew plenty that it did, does anyone still dislike "the word?"

It is as natural as breathing for Mr Fleur &nd I to whistle when we hear that word.

 

We do it without even thinking, wherever we may be, in whatever company.

 

So I guess the answer is Yes, we have a bit of 'problem' with the word. lol

[mama]

Hmmmn yes, well we are a superstitious lot.

 

"On the Isle of Man the word 'rat' should be used with caution; even today many people may be shocked, and indeed offended upon its utterance. It is considered bad luck to mention this word. The origins of this superstition date far back, possibly to a time when many Manx people lived off the sea, where it was a sign of trouble when the rats were leaving the ship. Local alternatives include longtail, joey, queerfella, ringie and the Manx Gaelic word, roddan. In recent times, many young people have converted to saying "r-a-t", owing to the influence of British immigrants."

 

I wonder what Steve Rodan thinks of this.

[mollag]

In the fishing fraternity they would be called "cowliron fellas" [ cold iron] with much sucking of teeth and touching of the cast iron tables, some pagan link i think with the iron. A mouse was a little fella or a lonnag.

[Stu Peters]

It's one of those odd Manxie things that makes the island special - and that as a 'stopover' you ignore at your peril!!

[Frances]

it may be instructive to read the comments of P M C Kermode founder of IoMNH&ASoc (+ first director of Manx Museum) written in 1885 www.manxnotebook.com/manxnb/v04p119.htm (sorry for some poor scanning now corrected)

 

I have never seen here the Black Rat, Mus Rattus, Linn. Occasionally its presence is reported, possibly having been brought over in some vessel.

 

Mus decuinaiius, Pall., the Brown Rat, RODDAN, is rather too common. Though sometimes spoken of as the 'Norway Rat' this fellow is supposed to have come from the East, and that within the last century and a half. Buffon, whose 'Natural History' was published in 1749, Speaks of it as having then 'only been known for a short time,' and says 'This animal is mentioned by no naturalist, excepting M. Brisson, who calls it the wood-rat.' It would be interesting to know when it first reached our shores ; it seems to have been sufficiently long known to have gained a name, which possibly, however, may have belonged, in the first instance, to the Black Rat. The word, moreover, ' Roddan,' looks like a corruption merely of the English name. As the common rat is a good swimmer and may often be seen about drains and ditches, it is sometimes spoken of here as the Water-rat, Arvicola amphibiiis, Desmar., which, however, is a very different animal, and one which, I feel sure, we have not. Whether we have the short-tailed Field-mouse, Arvicola agrestis, Flein., I cannot say positively.

 

Notice no mention of the taboo on the word - also that the animal is probably not native to the Island and thus talk of 'pagan' rites should be treated with a large amount of salt - my own suggestion is the custom was invented by some published tale popularising sailor's customs especially those dealing with the Norse Islands (shetland etc) and extended by analogy to the 'long fella' - see www.manxnotebook.com/mnq1904/n198.htm - again note no general taboo on the word

[Mr. Sausages]

Although it makes me think of the inbred inhabitants of Royston Vasey (tails, no-tails etc.), I'm in favour of giving everything a name based on it's tail.

 

Wag-tails (dogs)

Brush-tails (horses)

All-tails (snakes and worms)

Twirly-tails (pigs)

 

These are the only tails I can think of.

[Frances]

Then again I also cheerily shout "Up yours little people" when we go over the Fairy Bridge - to date, they haven't exacted any revenge upon me that I'm aware of.

 

not surprising - wrong Fairy Bridge - tho the original you can only get over if wearing wellies (overgrown path - it is on an old packhorse trail which comes out on Old castletown Rd by side the now converted Santon Methodist church - the road was never metalled)

[mollag]

Notice no mention of the taboo on the word - also that the animal is probably not native to the Island and thus talk of 'pagan' rites should be treated with a large amount of salt - my own suggestion is the custom was invented by some published tale popularising sailor's customs especially those dealing with the Norse Islands (shetland etc) and extended by analogy to the 'long fella' - see www.manxnotebook.com/mnq1904/n198.htm - again note no general taboo on the word

 

 

Have you considered the possibility that the taboo may have come to these shores on the lips of others, perhaps the cornish fishing families that integrated into the island during the 18th and 19th centuries?

 

The Nickies would surely be familiar with rodents, and Gaelic speakers also.

 

also that the animal is probably not native to the Island and thus talk of 'pagan' rites should be treated with a large amount of salt

 

Im unsure when the big fellas came to the island but if boats were landing from foreign parts, then you can probably be sure the big fellas came as well. The pagan mention is not in referance to a rite but a superstition that predates christianity, like touching wood or pinches of salt, over the left shoulder i should imagine.

[Frances]

Cornish as a language was I think well dead by the time the Nickies arrived (I think it was dead by mid 18th century) - the major influx of cornish was, I think, a little later with the mining industry - these were generally bible christians (became stalwarts of Primitive Methodism on Island) - you can see two well respected scholars, one very much native (PMCK) who had deep Manx roots make no mention of it - Rydings who got much of his info from those around Port Erin says he had to search for some analogy - that of the Shetlands being the model.

 

The influx of longtails to the calf is well dated as they were supposed to have come off a wrecked Russian boat (baltic trade ?) and in the course of very few years destroyed the centuries old puffin industry (young shearwaters ) as they ate the young holded up in the rabbit holes used as nests (what they did pre introduction of rabiits I don't know) - if they were long native to the Island I would have expected the Calf to have been overrun long before this.

[mollag]

Frances, if you get an opportunity take a look at Deadwood, the Cornish miners speak Cornish in the programme which is scripted from original news items from circa 1870's the language was alive and in use at that time for sure.

The cornish mine links are seperate from the fishing links which go long back to the silver darlins which the manx boats followed right down to cornwall long before the 17th century, a common language and profession, my surname is cornish in origin but recognised as manx. The classic manx fishing boat the "Nicky" is basically a cornish design, Nicky being the nickname for cornishmen cos so many were christianed Nicholas

 

 

And chopley, how bloody inconsiderate of you.

[Frances]

the last monoglot speaker of Cornish was Dolly Pentreath who died in 1777 - the celtic revival of the mid to late 19th century brought some renewed interest (partucularly by Henry Jenner who also wrote a paper on Manx) and Alison Treganning, who died in 1906 is claimed as the last traditional speaker - basically the language died about about 100 years before Manx did, but languages seldom fully die (see manx !)

I agree there would be contact between Cornish + manx fishermen though the Manx were mostly near shore fishermen - longer journies after fish only really started in 19th c (eg Irish Mackerrel) - what do you do with a boat load of rapidly decaying fish unless you can quickly run them to port ?

 

However it would be nicely ironic to know that the 'Manx' custom was actually a comeover ! - rather like T E Brown pushing Sckillicorn as the sublimest of manx names not realising it came from Lancashire !

[mollag]

Mainly the fish would be salt preservd on board or delivered to a nearby salting station on the coast, Salt by Mark Kurlansky is a facinating book on the history and process. "Cod "by the same author is also informative on the methods of fish presevation------2 of my must keep books!

I watched the salting process on the battery pier as a lad and it had hardly changed in centuries. the other mingling aspect was the gutties, the women who followed the herring down the coast of england/ireland/IOM

splitting herring untill the shoals ran out into the Atlantic, a prime source for the mixing of cultural habits.

 

Like yourself, i am often amused by some peoples assumption that the IOM appeared in a cultural vacuum, some chance of that happening.

[mollag]

Goddamit man, you cant say pizza if its a saturday and a full moon, behave.