Re-writing The Facts...

[Roger Smelly]

Well if i ever own a black cat or dog i will call him nigge

 

that way i will not ofend anyone

[Declan]

Does the change affect the outcome of the film? No, it is the name of a dog. It is not as if the damn wouldn't have been busted or the Germans would have won the war if the dog had been called Trigger.

 

(Although I'm surprised the Americans haven't renamed the film the Darnbusters)

[simon]

BBC - Myths & Legends - The Dambusters

 

Propaganda is an essential government tool during times of conflict, its success lies in the exaggeration and manipulation of facts to make them more favourable to the propagandist.*

 

How much of the Dambusters’ legend can be attributed to military success, and how much to the military propaganda machinery in place at the time?

 

"I feel a blow has been struck at Germany from which she cannot recover for several years", wrote Barnes Wallis, five days after the operation.

 

Despite the initial optimistic response, it soon became apparent that the overall result was one of a ‘temporary inconvenience’, rather than permanent damage to the German war production. According to historian John Sweetman, the total water production in the Ruhr on the 15 May 1943 was one million cubic metres, which dropped to 260,000 two days later. However, the original output had been restored by 27 June. The electricity shortage caused by the bombing was also short-lived.

 

* so why not change the dog's name if it makes for a better story

[Albert Tatlock]

It’s right that the word ‘nigger’ is dropped, what it conveys to people today is very different from what it conveyed sixty odd years ago.

So shouldn't you get busy lobbying Arnold Schwarzenegger to change his name to Arnold Darktrigger then?

 

...and Nigeria to change to Trigeria perhaps.

[Addie]

* so why not change the dog's name if it makes for a better story

OK. A name-change light prove less offensive.

 

So the dog should be renamed Trigger and Guy (n. to jeer at or make fun of; ridicule) Gibson could be re-named - now let's see

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[localyokel]

Why bother with historical accuracy at all.

 

Its 1943, on the LA river.

 

There's a gang of reefer smoking beavers, who have just cut off the water supply to downtown LA.

 

Only one thing can save the day......

 

A team of English crack dam busters that have just escaped from a high security German prison camp and retreated to the LA underworld.

 

They steal 3 planes from LA X disguished as Roosevelt clones.

 

They arm them with nukes (which don't exist yet) and go after those reefer smoking beavers.

 

They have only 24 hours to take out the dam before the beavers develop a drug that makes them immune to radioactivity.

 

Jason Stretam star's an Lieutenant Coronel Dick "fuck those fucking bastard beavers" Hotchkiss of the British Flying Corps.

[Lonan3]

Why bother with historical accuracy at all.

 

Its 1943, on the LA river.

 

There's a gang of reefer smoking beavers, who have just cut off the water supply to downtown LA.

 

Only one thing can save the day......

 

A team of English crack dam busters that have just escaped from a high security German prison camp and retreated to the LA underworld.

 

They steal 3 planes from LA X disguished as Roosevelt clones.

 

They arm them with nukes (which don't exist yet) and go after those reefer smoking beavers.

 

They have only 24 hours to take out the dam before the beavers develop a drug that makes them immune to radioactivity.

 

Jason Stretam star's an Lieutenant Coronel Dick "fuck those fucking bastard beavers" Hotchkiss of the British Flying Corps.

 

Haven't I already seen this one? Wasn't Bruce Willis in it?

[Rog]

So shouldn't you get busy lobbying Arnold Schwarzenegger to change his name to Arnold Darktrigger then?

 

...and Nigeria to change to Trigeria perhaps.

 

Not really, the 'negger' part of the name 'Schwarzenegger' derives I believe from the Austrian for a ploughman or 'tiller of the soil' or somesuch.

 

As for Nigeria, why change it's name? It derives from the river 'Niger' which in turn is supposed to be as a result of the dark colour of the downstream waters and so it being called 'Niger', that being Latin for black.

 

Maybe that's also something to do with the (now disused) term 'darkest Africa'? Who really knows anymore.

[Albert Tatlock]

 

So shouldn't you get busy lobbying Arnold Schwarzenegger to change his name to Arnold Darktrigger then?

 

...and Nigeria to change to Trigeria perhaps.

 

Not really, the 'negger' part of the name 'Schwarzenegger' derives I believe from the Austrian for a ploughman or 'tiller of the soil' or somesuch.

 

As for Nigeria, why change it's name? It derives from the river 'Niger' which in turn is supposed to be as a result of the dark colour of the downstream waters and so it being called 'Niger', that being Latin for black.

 

Maybe that's also something to do with the (now disused) term 'darkest Africa'? Who really knows anymore.

So what? 'Nigger' was just a code word and a dogs name in the Dambusters - but Arnold Schwarzenegger's name still conjours up the wrong meaning to many people too. You can't have it both ways.

 

Anyhow, there is no such language as Austrian (there is Austrian German) - and 'Negar' is the old German word for the now offensive word 'Nigger'. Nigeria is named after the River Niger - and Niger is from Zulu (meaning Negro) - so I think you've been 'Rogered' on that one Rog.

 

(By the way, in these days of sex equality you should also be lobbying for Israel to be either Herael half the time - or better still Itsrael).

[simon]

Nigeria is named after the River Niger - and Niger is from Zulu (meaning Negro) - so I think you've been 'Rogered' on that one Rog.

 

I know that Wikipedia can be wrong - but according to this entry:

 

The origin of the name Niger is unknown. It is often assumed that it derives from the Latin word for "black", niger, but there is no evidence for this, and it would have been more likely for Portuguese explorers to have used their own word, negro, or preto as they did elsewhere in the world; in any case the Niger is not a blackwater river (see Rio Negro). The name is thus thought to be indigenous, but no convincing origin has been found among the 30 languages of the Niger delta and lower reaches of the river. One hypothesis is that it comes from the Tuareg phrase gher n gheren "river of rivers" (shortened to ngher), originating in the middle reaches of the river around Timbuktu.

[Albert Tatlock]

Nigeria is named after the River Niger - and Niger is from Zulu (meaning Negro) - so I think you've been 'Rogered' on that one Rog.

 

I know that Wikipedia can be wrong - but according to this entry:

 

The origin of the name Niger is unknown. It is often assumed that it derives from the Latin word for "black", niger, but there is no evidence for this, and it would have been more likely for Portuguese explorers to have used their own word, negro, or preto as they did elsewhere in the world; in any case the Niger is not a blackwater river (see Rio Negro). The name is thus thought to be indigenous, but no convincing origin has been found among the 30 languages of the Niger delta and lower reaches of the river. One hypothesis is that it comes from the Tuareg phrase gher n gheren "river of rivers" (shortened to ngher), originating in the middle reaches of the river around Timbuktu.

Saw that.

 

From Zulu Nation "NTR or NTCHR is where the word Niger, or NEGRO. In our ancient languages the vowels were not originally written down, so NEGRO would be N-GR- or NATURAL would be NTR-L."

 

The Internet jury is clearly out and this is not so straight forward. However, I still think the translation is sufficiently suspect to have been decided by whites (probably the Spanish before and during the slave trade - as Negro is Spanish for Black) - which is also likely to have easily led to the derogatory term 'nigger'. This is all too coincidental is it not? - as the naming of the river, the slave trade and the development of these words all happened within a relatively short time of each other.

[Rog]

In Yddish we call blacks 'schvartzers' when being casual, so maybe 'The Governator' SHOULD change his name after all!

[MrsTrellisfromNorthWales]

I was watching an episode of the Young Ones on UKTVG2 the other day. In it, a racist police officer played by Jim Barclay, sees a white man but is wearing sunglasses and thinks he's black.

 

In the original, broadcast-on-BBC2-at-9pm-in-1982 he said: "Oh, sorry John. I thought you was a nigger."

 

But in the UKTVG2-broadcast-at-11pm-in-2006 repeat, he said: "Oh, sorry John."

 

How things have changed.

[Gladys]

Always thought it strange that a line of hair products to promote beauty translates to 'blackhead'!

 

(Waits for Amadeus to correct me!)

[La_Dolce_Vita]

I think it is missing the point to be debating the etymologies of words that mean black. It's a bit silly to ponder over whether Nigeria and Niger should alter their names because the word nigger is no longer acceptable. The latter is an oppressive term for black people; the term can only be understood to be oppressive when used by a white person. It is not the same as the usage of the f*ck , bastard or bloody as Rog points out, these are simply profanities but are not oppressive and discriminatory. I would agree the word should be dropped but it has always had the same meaning, sixty years or today.

 

Nigeria and Niger are just names of countries and are named after the river Niger, this is would think more likely to come from a Latin origin than Zulu. Anyway, it is not the origins of these words that is important but the underlying meanings particular words.

 

As for the dog, Declan is right. Does it really matter if the name of a dog is changed. How important is the dog? Is it critical that the audience know this dog and know it was Nigger. Maybe the dog should have been written out of the film, I mean the dog couldn't have help that much to blow up the dam. To keep the dog and his name might be an interesting reflection on racism in the 1940s, though not a poignant reflection.

 

Is this actually really just about the worry the British have about American's apparently and sometimes actually re-writing history? It is interesting that the original DamBusters did give the impression that it was hugely successful when it in fact made little impact on the German economy, though of course the bomb was a innovative success. Dunkirk, similarly distorts the significance of the defeat; considering the poor record of the British army in the Second Word War I can appreciate why whereas with the Royal Navy the films are far closer to the truth, as the Royal Navy fared much better. The same is true with Americans though, Pearl Harbor was a pile of shite and seemed to make too much of a daring little raid on Japan which did almost neglible damage. It is quite a noble story but seems tailored to make people feel proud to be American though really wonder why it had any significance, if people want history they should read a book.

 

Anyway, I will be looking forward to seeing Trigger in this film.