Anti Semitism Uk

[Chinahand]

Chinahand subliminally makes a great comment above in that in general terms - how do you even know people are Jewish so how can you even be accused of being anti semetic? In day to day life I don't ask questions about people's religions because its always a sufe fire way of either getting grief or opening up issues that you don't want to. Unless somebody turns up in full Hasidic dress I have no idea whether they are Jewish or not so I cannot be anti semetic, because to be anti semetic would would rely on me knowing they were semetic in the first place and to treat them differently because of it. Its a non issue.

 

Hboy, I've thought deeply about your comments here and I think you are totally wrong.

 

You seem to be implying that the only way to be antisemitic is to be biased in your behaviour towards a jew, and because you can't identify a non orthodox jew you can't be antisemetic.

 

I find that ridiculous. Lonewolf has talked about explicit acts of violence against jewish property etc, but there are levels of bias that are far more implicit. Sitting in the pub and a jewish based story comes on Sky TV ... an antisemites reaction to that story, the way they comment on it to your friends, all of these things can have an antisemitic bias and spread antisemitism.

 

To pretend those comments are harmless and irrelevent to creating an anti jewish atmosphere is just bull.

 

You made your comments concerning my post about antisemitism at school, I think you have latched onto my comment saying that I wasn't aware of anyone being jewish. Are you seriously saying people weren't being antisemetic in my school cos there was no target for their baises?

 

There is also another level to this, if an antisemite met someone called Rosen, or Eisner, are you saying they wouldn't know they were jewish if they didn't have ringlets and a beard.

 

I think your analysis just doesn't stand up. As Lonewolf has said, the report on increasing antisemitism contains statistical analyses etc showing increasing attacks against jews, their property and their places of worship ... I find the fact that these results are being put about as part of a deliberate campaign by jews and Israelies quite irrelevent.

 

I agree with you by the way that this media campaign is definitely occuring. It's the flip side of, and response to, what Lonewolf is going on about ... a so called anti Israeli bias in the western media.

 

Lonewolf by the way, the BBC has commissioned extensive independent surveys on this and the results DO NOT show the bias you say exists, though they do show poor, cliche ridden reporting! Both sides have their PR departments and independent news organizations have to decide which stories to cover.

 

Hboy, are you saying we should cover up reports of increasing antisemitism because Israel has launched a violent and unpopular war to try to stop attacks on its citizens? Makes no sense to me.

[LoneWolf]

Chinahand subliminally makes a great comment above in that in general terms - how do you even know people are Jewish so how can you even be accused of being anti semetic? In day to day life I don't ask questions about people's religions because its always a sufe fire way of either getting grief or opening up issues that you don't want to. Unless somebody turns up in full Hasidic dress I have no idea whether they are Jewish or not so I cannot be anti semetic, because to be anti semetic would would rely on me knowing they were semetic in the first place and to treat them differently because of it. Its a non issue.

 

Hboy, I've thought deeply about your comments here and I think you are totally wrong.

 

You seem to be implying that the only way to be antisemitic is to be biased in your behaviour towards a jew, and because you can't identify a non orthodox jew you can't be antisemetic.

 

I find that ridiculous. Lonewolf has talked about explicit acts of violence against jewish property etc, but there are levels of bias that are far more implicit. Sitting in the pub and a jewish based story comes on Sky TV ... an antisemites reaction to that story, the way they comment on it to your friends, all of these things can have an antisemitic bias and spread antisemitism.

To pretend those comments are harmless and irrelevent to creating an anti jewish atmosphere is just bull.

 

Absolutely agree with you ChinaHand. Reinforcement of racial stereotypes via disparaging comments is deplorable.

I would add these concerns are not limited to anti semitic statements.

We need to be cautious about stereo typing Muslims for example. Many of us, myself included, are very concerned about the actions taken by extremist groups in the name of Islam. We need to be careful those concerns do not conflate all Muslims as responsible for or part of a terrorist dynamic.

 

You made your comments concerning my post about antisemitism at school, I think you have latched onto my comment saying that I wasn't aware of anyone being jewish. Are you seriously saying people weren't being antisemetic in my school cos there was no target for their baises?

The comment you made was used by Hboy in an inappropriate context. It was distorted.

 

Lonewolf by the way, the BBC has commissioned extensive independent surveys on this and the results DO NOT show the bias you say exists, though they do show poor, cliche ridden reporting! Both sides have their PR departments and independent news organizations have to decide which stories to cover.

Im glad to hear the BBC has commissioned independent surveys. I would be interested to see an independent analysis of its coverage of events in Lebanon. I would also be interested to see an independent analysis of the way it is currently reporting events in Afghanistan. The BBC reporting was and is distinctly different to that of other large news agencies.

Hboy, are you saying we should cover up reports of increasing antisemitism because Israel has launched a violent and unpopular war to try to stop attacks on its citizens? Makes no sense to me.

I think we can draw our own conclusions here.

[Rog]

"Does that make me anti jewish or an anti semite?"

 

I think it makes you anti-zionist, which is completely different to the two concepts you mentioned.

 

Just what is, in your opinion and preferably your words, a Zionist?

[Politician]

"Does that make me anti jewish or an anti semite?"

 

I think it makes you anti-zionist, which is completely different to the two concepts you mentioned.

 

Just what is, in your opinion and preferably your words, a Zionist?

 

My understanding of zionism is that it is the belief that it was right to redraw the map in the Middle East so that Jewish peoples (whether by race or religion) should have their own homeland.

[hboy]

To be honest with you I suspect you have an unpleasant agenda here and I am distinctly unimpressed by your crass claim "just show your argument firmly disappeared up its own arse."

As to your ridiculous assertion that religion and politics do not mix I can only recommend you do a little reading. The two are inextricably interconnected.

 

Yes. Why don't you just come out and say it "HBOY IS ANTI-SEMETIC". Go on it will make you feel better. After all I have criticised what I believe to be the reprehensible policies of Israel in its recent campaign so that makes me anti-semetic in your book. You cannot dis-associate criticism of the policies of the government for criticism of all Jewish people. You might as well say that ANY negative comment that borders on Israel is anti-semetic and that is a joke.

 

Its like saying "Look at the terrible way Zimbabwe goes about its business" and being accused to hating all black people.

 

Its not my problem that you feel you have to be defensive of anything critical being said. I have said time and time again that I am not anti-semetic, and also that I do not believe in general that there is any great concern about anti semetism in the IOM.

 

If you go back to Lonan3's first post it ends:-

 

"The most worrying discovery of this inquiry is that anti-Jewish sentiment is entering the mainstream, appearing in the everyday conversations of people who consider themselves neither racist nor prejudiced."

 

That is pure unadulterated cobblers, and again trying to link criticism of Israeli policy to being anti semetic.

 

People should feel free to criticise any of the disgusting policies perpetrated by any government without the accusation of being racist. But that is just not possible in this case is it?

[LoneWolf]

To be honest with you I suspect you have an unpleasant agenda here and I am distinctly unimpressed by your crass claim "just show your argument firmly disappeared up its own arse."

As to your ridiculous assertion that religion and politics do not mix I can only recommend you do a little reading. The two are inextricably interconnected.

Yes. Why don't you just come out and say it "HBOY IS ANTI-SEMETIC". Go on it will make you feel better. After all I have criticised what I believe to be the reprehensible policies of Israel in its recent campaign so that makes me anti-semetic in your book. You cannot dis-associate criticism of the policies of the government for criticism of all Jewish people. You might as well say that ANY negative comment that borders on Israel is anti-semetic and that is a joke.

Hboy, you have revealed a very unpleasant component of your nature during this thread. In particular you have made the hallmark racist claim that a Jewish conspiracy exists.

If you go back to Lonan3's first post it ends:-

"The most worrying discovery of this inquiry is that anti-Jewish sentiment is entering the mainstream, appearing in the everyday conversations of people who consider themselves neither racist nor prejudiced."

That is pure unadulterated cobblers, and again trying to link criticism of Israeli policy to being anti semetic.

You are again revealing something unpleasant about yourself. Lonan3 was making a statement of fact as recorded in the report. You have chosen to challenge this on the basis it is designed to to deflect criticism from Israel. This is ,again, a hallmark racist tactic with no basis in reality.

[hboy]

Hboy, you have revealed a very unpleasant component of your nature during this thread. In particular you have made the hallmark racist claim that a Jewish conspiracy exists.

 

Crap. I posted - "We live in a world where public opinion is manipulated all the time in response to world events. To suggest that sections of the community (Jewish or otherwise) do not conspire to garner a positive image in the press when negative public perception may exist is naive in the extreme"

 

That is nothing to do with a Jewish conspiracy, it was a general statement regarding media manipulation. You translate this to claims of a Jewish conspiracy. You are paranoid. Very, very paranoid.

[LoneWolf]

Hboy, you have revealed a very unpleasant component of your nature during this thread. In particular you have made the hallmark racist claim that a Jewish conspiracy exists.

 

Crap. I posted - "We live in a world where public opinion is manipulated all the time in response to world events. To suggest that sections of the community (Jewish or otherwise) do not conspire to garner a positive image in the press when negative public perception may exist is naive in the extreme"

 

That is nothing to do with a Jewish conspiracy, it was a general statement regarding media manipulation. You translate this to claims of a Jewish conspiracy. You are paranoid. Very, very paranoid.

 

You have already said you deny facts and here we have quick confirmation.

You actually posted this ..

Its a conspiracy to garner public support (or at least deflect public criticism) for unattractive policies being pursued in the Middle East.

[hboy]

[

[hboy]

Its a conspiracy to garner public support (or at least deflect public criticism) for unattractive policies being pursued in the Middle East.

 

Sadly you confuse the general application of the word conspiracy, with allegations of a specific Jewish conspiracy.

 

Dictionary definition "any concurrence in action; combination in bringing about a given result"

 

You are paranoid. Very, very paranoid.

[LoneWolf]

Its a conspiracy to garner public support (or at least deflect public criticism) for unattractive policies being pursued in the Middle East.

 

Sadly you confuse the general application of the word conspiracy, with allegations of a specific Jewish conspiracy.

 

Dictionary definition "any concurrence in action; combination in bringing about a given result"

 

You are paranoid. Very, very paranoid.

 

hboy, you made a fairly lengthy post which contained the allegation of a conspiracy. The allegation was set inside the context of your post. .. a distinctly anti semitic context. Here it is.

http://www.manxforums.com/forums/index.php...st&p=184256

The entire body of the post, and your other posts in this thread are revealingly unpleasant and you might do well to reflect on what it is you are promoting.

As to being paranoid I think I will leave diagnoses of that sort to the medical profession.

However, I do note your earlier assertion that everyone you have ever met has been or is a racist.

That might explain your views and opinions.

However,there are other views. For example, I had a long time membership of the anti Nazi League until it folded and I currently hold membership of "Unite against Fascism" and donate to "Love Music Hate Racism". I am aware of at least another 10 local residents who do the same. Hopefully there are more.

[hboy]

hboy, you made a fairly lengthy post which contained the allegation of a conspiracy. The allegation was set inside the context of your post. .. a distinctly anti semitic context. Here it is.

http://www.manxforums.com/forums/index.php...st&p=184256

The entire body of the post, and your other posts in this thread are revealingly unpleasant and you might do well to reflect on what it is you are promoting.

As to being paranoid I think I will leave diagnoses of that sort to the medical profession.

However, I do note your earlier assertion that everyone you have ever met has been or is a racist.

That might explain your views and opinions.

However,there are other views. For example, I had a long time membership of the anti Nazi League until it folded and I currently hold membership of "Unite against Fascism" and donate to "Love Music Hate Racism". I am aware of at least another 10 local residents who do the same. Hopefully there are more.

 

I think I will let people read my posts in their entirety rather than have you summarise them for ease of criticism.

 

Plus if you are going to summarise do it properly. I didn't say everyone I had ever met was racist, I said racism is subliminally hardwired into people whether you accept it or not. That is the position of a realist, and not of someone who contributes to organizations in an attempt to prove they are not something else

 

You have cleared something up for me though. If I wanted to define anti-semitism in relation to your posts it is clearly everyone and everything that does not have the same opinion of a Jewish person. I am sure that this is not true, but appears to be the basis of every argument you present.

 

As i stated many times critisicm of a regime is entirely different to criticism of a race or religious group.

 

I think I stand on record at least 3 times for stating that I am not anti semetic and know of nobody who is. I do, however, have a problem with media manipulation and devisive tactics used in an attempt to deflect public opinion in times where the actions of certain nations are not universally applauded.

 

You can post what you like now. If you cut and paste further chunks you could really take much more out of context if you want.

[LoneWolf]

I think I will let people read my posts in their entirety rather than have you summarise them for ease of criticism.

 

You really do need to look carefully at what it is you are replying to. I have posted a link to the entirety of the post in question [your post]

 

Plus if you are going to summarise do it properly. I didn't say everyone I had ever met was racist, I said racism is subliminally hardwired into people whether you accept it or not. That is the position of a realist, and not of someone who contributes to organizations in an attempt to prove they are not something else

 

Well in that case I just have to wonder what you meant by this piece of offensive rubbish. No doubt there is some bizarre explanation.

Finally - I have never met a person of any nationallity that is not subliminary racist in some way or other. Fear of "outsiders" is a basic human survival instinct and is hard wired into us. People of any nationality will tend to trust someone of another nationality in a different way to one of their "own".

That counts for all creeds, and colours. We should accept that this is human nature.

 

You really do have a problem. This nonsense is unashamedly anti semitic and totally without foundation......

 

You have cleared something up for me though. If I wanted to define anti-semitism in relation to your posts it is clearly everyone and everything that does not have the same opinion of a Jewish person. I am sure that this is not true, but appears to be the basis of every argument you present.

 

As i stated many times critisicm of a regime is entirely different to criticism of a race or religious group.

Yes it is. Its just a shame that you have chosen to follow that statement with this ..

I think I stand on record at least 3 times for stating that I am not anti semetic and know of nobody who is. I do, however, have a problem with media manipulation and devisive tactics used in an attempt to deflect public opinion in times where the actions of certain nations are not universally applauded.

For the avoidance of doubt here and just in case you genuinely cant see it ..you are reverting to your conspiracy argument again and this is a distinctly racist tactic.

[hboy]

I think I will let people read my posts in their entirety rather than have you summarise them for ease of criticism.

 

You really do need to look carefully at what it is you are replying to. I have posted a link to the entirety of the post in question [your post]

 

Plus if you are going to summarise do it properly. I didn't say everyone I had ever met was racist, I said racism is subliminally hardwired into people whether you accept it or not. That is the position of a realist, and not of someone who contributes to organizations in an attempt to prove they are not something else

 

Well in that case I just have to wonder what you meant by this piece of offensive rubbish. No doubt there is some bizarre explanation.

Finally - I have never met a person of any nationallity that is not subliminary racist in some way or other. Fear of "outsiders" is a basic human survival instinct and is hard wired into us. People of any nationality will tend to trust someone of another nationality in a different way to one of their "own".

That counts for all creeds, and colours. We should accept that this is human nature.

 

You really do have a problem. This nonsense is unashamedly anti semitic and totally without foundation......

 

You have cleared something up for me though. If I wanted to define anti-semitism in relation to your posts it is clearly everyone and everything that does not have the same opinion of a Jewish person. I am sure that this is not true, but appears to be the basis of every argument you present.

 

As i stated many times critisicm of a regime is entirely different to criticism of a race or religious group.

Yes it is. Its just a shame that you have chosen to follow that statement with this ..

I think I stand on record at least 3 times for stating that I am not anti semetic and know of nobody who is. I do, however, have a problem with media manipulation and devisive tactics used in an attempt to deflect public opinion in times where the actions of certain nations are not universally applauded.

For the avoidance of doubt here and just in case you genuinely cant see it ..you are reverting to your conspiracy argument again and this is a distinctly racist tactic.

 

As I said you can do what you like. Keep on posting out of context. I have better things to do than keep on responding to your paranoia.

 

Plus how is a general statement on racism anti-semetic?

[LoneWolf]

As I said you can do what you like. Keep on posting out of context. I have better things to do than keep on responding to your paranoia.

Plus how is a general statement on racism anti-semetic?

Hboy, none of the above, be it calling me paranoid or pretending innocence changes in anyway or diminishes the offensive posts you have made in this thread.

Racist arguments, whether they are intentionally made or not, and Im willing to be charitable in your case, dont or at least shouldnt have any place in the modern world.

Anti semitism is in the ascendancy again and we need to be wary of it. Relatively recent history tells us where it can end.