Over 10,000 Missing Voters...

[hboy]

Yet it seems clear that I am not the only one who has this opinion.

I still don't understand the intricasies of the political system and though I am in Manchester at the moment I still don't know what my parents constituency is or who stands for what. The Island seem very unpolitical.

Do you think people need to be educated more to make people less apathetic. I think it wrong to simply force people to vote who really don't understand what their vote is about.

 

I'm sorry but I laughed out loud reading this.

 

Please access http://www.tynwald.org.im/ and in approximately 10 minutes you are explained everything. Maybe you are a member of a generation that needs to see things on TV (perhaps a Tynwald reality show) before you understand. But for most people the workings of Tynwald are easy enough to understand (the logic may defy people but the mechanisms are clear). What education process do you need apart from actually being bothered to ask a few questions & access a website? Hard in this day and age I know.

 

This just proves what a bad idea it is giving 16 years olds the vote, when older people cannot even be arsed to spend 10 minutes finding out about how things work.

 

Don't crticise the process when you cannot even be bothered to read a website for 10 minutes to find out what it is all about. Your right it is wrong to force people to vote when they don't even understand what their vote is about. But that's the thing about a democracy - idiots have exactly the same standing as the rest of us.

[LoneWolf]

Is it just me though or do you think there is a serious problem with the politizisation(is this a word) of the Island's population. I have to say I share the apathy of many in regard to Manx politics, much of that though is down to my education. I know far more about the political system in England and Westminster than the Isle of Man, I doubt I am some sort of anomaly in this respect. I don't remember being taught anything about the Isle of Man, least of all it's political structure. The only things I have tended to grasp as I reached my 20s is the Islands government is apparently corrupt, the political system (first-past the post) is grossly unrepresentative, and that the vast majority of politicians are bigoted and are 'career politicians' (though I would expect little more). Yet it seems clear that I am not the only one who has this opinion.

I still don't understand the intricasies of the political system and though I am in Manchester at the moment I still don't know what my parents constituency is or who stands for what. The Island seem very unpolitical.

Do you think people need to be educated more to make people less apathetic. I think it wrong to simply force people to vote who really don't understand what their vote is about.

 

You arent the first and you certainly wont be the last to wonder if the Island should make more effort to politicise its citizens.

Most properly constituted political parties would argue strongly it is in the interests of society to develop the political consciousness of citizens.

[Addie]

You arent the first and you certainly wont be the last to wonder if the Island should make more effort to politicise its citizens.

Most properly constituted political parties would argue strongly it is in the interests of society to develop the political consciousness of citizens.

I'd tend to agree with that. And it does seem such a damned waste for people to be granted a right to lodge their opinions yet waste the opportunity.

 

Just an off topic query Lonewolf, are Manx residents citizens or subjects?

[John Wright]

Oh I don't know. I would make registration and voting compulsory.

 

I would have a box for write ins and a none of the above box. If none of the above won then no one would be elected for that seat.

 

I am interested in the views of members on what apperas to me to be a huge undemoctaric problem with our system of single, two and three seat constituencies.

 

Some people have one vote, others habve two and yet more have three. How can that be democratic. Then we tried STV, so we all got one vote but some people had one MHK, others had two and yet others had thyree, how is that democratic

 

Seems to me we need constituencies of equal size and equal voting and electing rights, ie 24 x single seats, 12 times 2 seat or 8 x three seats 6 x four seats and so on.

 

For replies please ignore Legislative Council, it is a separate debate and adds confusion. I agree it needs to have a directly elected mandate. BUT it may not need electing at the same time as the Keys or all together, or even on the same franchise.

[hboy]

I am interested in the views of members on what apperas to me to be a huge undemoctaric problem with our system of single, two and three seat constituencies.

 

Some people have one vote, others habve two and yet more have three. How can that be democratic.

 

Its a fair point.

[LoneWolf]

You arent the first and you certainly wont be the last to wonder if the Island should make more effort to politicise its citizens.

Most properly constituted political parties would argue strongly it is in the interests of society to develop the political consciousness of citizens.

I'd tend to agree with that. And it does seem such a damned waste for people to be granted a right to lodge their opinions yet waste the opportunity.

 

Just an off topic query Lonewolf, are Manx residents citizens or subjects?

 

Ive got a good idea what constitutes citizenship and how it is defined by the State in terms of access to benefits and responsibilities ... but Subjects?

Im not sure what meaning the State gives to "Subject". What do you think?

[John Wright]

We are legally citizens of the UK (and Islands)

 

We are subects of Betty ll

 

I do not want to be anyones subject. It is an outmoded concept.

 

I would rather be an EU citizen of an independent Mann.

[stookie]

Oh I don't know. I would make registration and voting compulsory.

 

Seems to me we need constituencies of equal size and equal voting and electing rights, ie 24 x single seats, 12 times 2 seat or 8 x three seats 6 x four seats and so on.

 

But isn't not voting an expression of one's state of mind also? To force people to vote risks forcing those who are apathetic to make a whimsical choice rather than one based on any issues.

 

I'd prefer we voted for, say 6 MHKs in total and scrap the so-called ministerial system as that just adds cost. How many does it really take to manage a population of c75k? How different can the interests of Castletown residents be from Port Erin in the big scheme of things? We could then pay proper salaries to people charged with running an economy/state the size of ours and maybe that way we would get some skillful statesmen for a change and stop people canvassing in their post offices etc. Get a lot more done, though what MR would do to fill the time they dedicate to covering Tynwald natterings, I can't begin to guess. Maybe they could cover coffee mornings or something equally as stimulating

[John Wright]

Oh I don't know. I would make registration and voting compulsory.

 

Seems to me we need constituencies of equal size and equal voting and electing rights, ie 24 x single seats, 12 times 2 seat or 8 x three seats 6 x four seats and so on.

 

But isn't not voting an expression of one's state of mind also? To force people to vote risks forcing those who are apathetic to make a whimsical choice rather than one based on any issues.

 

You have ommitted my next para which ois the significant one. If you ake voting compulsory you have to have a box for those who are not attracted to any candidate to write in soneones namwe they want Thus "manxchatterbox" or to place a cros against, thus "None of the above"

 

If your regulations say that if none of the above wins no one gets to represent the seat you can bet that aspiring politicians would eb trying to educate us to vote

 

They get paid enough anyway with allowances, travel.

 

The real problem here is the parish pump nature of National politics, in my opinion. As we do not have a proper system of functioning local government national politicians fulfill every role from local councillor with housing disputes through to National statesmen, plus they intervene in an executive fashion in departments and act as social workers to their constituents. They forget they are policy formers and enforcers only

[stookie]

You have ommitted my next para which ois the significant one. If you ake voting compulsory you have to have a box for those who are not attracted to any candidate to write in soneones namwe they want Thus "manxchatterbox" or to place a cros against, thus "None of the above"

 

If your regulations say that if none of the above wins no one gets to represent the seat you can bet that aspiring politicians would eb trying to educate us to vote

 

They get paid enough anyway with allowances, travel.

 

The real problem here is the parish pump nature of National politics, in my opinion. As we do not have a proper system of functioning local government national politicians fulfill every role from local councillor with housing disputes through to National statesmen, plus they intervene in an executive fashion in departments and act as social workers to their constituents. They forget they are policy formers and enforcers only

 

The job doesn't carry good enough pay to attract the best people is my point. For the most part, the private sector gets the best brains - that's not to say that the present incumbents are worth more!

 

If I choose to stay at home because I can't be arsed, that should be my choice, not 'driven' to a polling booth to put a meaningless (and maybe mischievous) X in a box I do vote BTW, so that is a hypothetical!

[Declan]

I get rather annoyed by the talk of voter apathy explaining poor turn out. How do they know "apathy" is the cause? Maybe people are staying at home because they don't like any of the choices.

 

But even if people stay at home because they can't see the point of voting, that isn't "voter apathy". A failling restaurant doesn't blame "diner apathy", and a failing shop does bleet about "consumer apathy" - they go out and try and convince people, and they change what they offer to meet what their customers want.

 

Politicians that don't engage the people don't get many votes, a political system that doesn't have many people voting isn't is a political system that is failing.

[Gladys]

Very, very good point Dec!

[La_Dolce_Vita]

I laughed too Hboy at your post, talk about smacking of bitterness. What's going on there?If I sounded a little disparaging about the Islands politics and that got your back-up I would not take it personally the Island certainly isn't perfect and can be criticised. If that not why you got all heated up I am sure a quack might be an better object for your cathartic VENTING.

I think I have every right to criticise as I NOW know enough from reading over the past few years and am aware of what I didn't know and what others do not to have a fair assessment of the Island's political system. I was referring more to my late teens and the way I observe things now.

 

I used to go on the Tynwald website quite a few times to look through the Hansards. PRIOR TO THIS, however, I cannot say I have had hardly any education about Manx politics whereas with English politics I knew far more. I do think it important to question why when living on the Island I had absolutely no idea about Manx politics and yet I understood what the Conservative Party and Labour Party apparently stood for.

I certainly didn't have recourse to the internet when I was 16 to start looking at a Tynwald website. I do not think this even existed then. Possibly maybe the individual needs to have more an insular mentality (I don;t mean this in a negative way). Nonetheless, it does seem to me that disincentive to vote when the political system is very unproportional, the politicians appear bigoted. Though with what your were saying about television, I do not think it is important HOW someone is politicised. If television is an effective medium then great. Obviously this would be impossible on the Isle of Man. Though in my opinion I think there should be more mediums to inform people, not everyone uses the internet; other than the internet there are few decent informative sources regarding the ins and outs of Manx politics.

 

If people are inquisitive and this is the reason or one of the reasons behind voter apathy then what lies behind it. Why is there a lack of motivation. Sorry to sound highfalutin but I don't think it is worth bemoaning low voter turn out if nobody is going to question why.

 

I definitely see your point Declan. What I feel though about Manx politics and actually generally the way of life on the Island is that is it generally conformist in comparison to the UK, and the majority of politicians all seem a little stuffy and illiberal. I definitely think some younger and more charismatic folk need to take part in Manx politics!

[Lonan3]

A simple idea: -

The island divided into eight constituencies of (approx) equal size.

Each constituency returning three members to the House of Keys.

Each constituency returning one member to the Legislative Council.

 

Problem: - Finding that number (+ opposing candidates) who would engage the attention of the voting public sufficiently to make them want to vote.

[Addie]

A simple idea: -

The island divided into eight constituencies of (approx) equal size.

Each constituency returning three members to the House of Keys.

Each constituency returning one member to the Legislative Council.

 

Problem: - Finding that number (+ opposing candidates) who would engage the attention of the voting public sufficiently to make them want to vote.

 

It's an idea, and sounds reasonable except, what happens if you have 20 excellent candidates in one constituency and one in another! What then?

 

An all island election is the only way to make sure that we don't lose good candidates. Only then can we vote for the cream of that electoral year's crop.