Biodiesel

[rallybug]

Pollen isn't a pollutant.

 

It is to my nose in the summer

[rallybug]

Less bang for the litre in pure form, but as it is mixed with mineral diesel so it forms only 5% of the mix it is not noticeable. As it is taxed at alower rate you get more bang for the buck.

 

Interestingly the experts who say we should use it then go on to admit that if all the land in GB which is set aside for EU agriculture was utilised it would only be enough to provi8de 4% of our diesel needs. Half the land is unsuitable. So that is only 2%. And that does not begin to address petrol volume.

 

The same statistics apply throughout the EU, so we cannot be self sufficient and use it to replace fossil.

 

The final downside is that we have to grow oil seed rape everywhere with nasty yellow fields and pollen and potentially higher pollen counts and allergies. In other words we are replacing one pollutant with another

 

It doesn't have to be rapeseed - various crops can be used.

 

Feedstock US Gallons/acre Litres/hectare

Soybean 40 375

Rapeseed 110 1,000

Mustard 140 1,300

Jatropha 175 1,590

Palm oil 650 5,800

Algae 10,000 95,000

 

Source

 

The University of New Hampshire have calculated that to replace the all current US transport fuels would need 140.8 billion US gallons of biodiesel, and this would require 15,000 sq. miles of land to produce if using algae.

 

Very interesting write-up here

[Roger Smelly]

Do a search on google for a fella called Stanley Meyers.

 

He had the right idea for bio fuels

[veggiepower]

Hi,

Biodiesel does not require any engine conversion. It is not the same as running your diesel on cooking oil which does require engine conversion e.g addition of coolant heat exchangers; modified injectors etc. I know because that's what I run my car on.

 

Biodiesel is diesel fuel made from rapeseed; soya; corn oil etc that has undergone a process known as "transesterification" using methanol and caustic soda to reduce it's consistency to the same as the mineral diesel bought from Shell/Total. If done properly to EN14214 (European Standard for Biofuels) it will not damage your engine. I don't think that the man at St. Marks was making it to this standard or if he was it wasn't tested. I'd guess the price difference can be mostly accounted for through shipping costs; testing;wages etc.

The proviso is however:

Do your research to see what percentage your can can run on. There have been some possible issues with very high pressure systems

Some manufacturers will warranty their cars to run on 100% Biodiesel;some won't.

Be aware that it can gel at tempratures below minus 3-4 C. This can be alleviated by adding some mineral diesel e.g 50/50 (as i think someone else said.

Changing from mineral to bio may require a change of fuel filter after the first 500 miles or so.

Some engines may see a slight power increase plus smoother running; others a slight decrease of 3-5%

I think algae is the way to go but don't know of anyone that's invested the money to do this yet.

Hope this helps.

Cheers.

Phil

[ccsnet]

Bio diesel actually is better for your engine than petrolium diesel.

 

The only thing with bio diesel is it wears out rubber hoses but if you use 50% petrolium diesel and 50% bio i am sure you would have no problems.

 

Just nip to the total in laxey fill half your tank then top it up at the fairy filling station.

 

i know someone who uses it and the only side effect is the car fumes smell like pop corn lol

 

I will be popping up to top up.

 

its about £0.65p to £0.75p a litre i think

 

so for 40 litres it is £41.20 for normal diesel and £30.00 for bio

 

Remmember most of the money you pay on fuel is tax, so bio is the way to go in my book.

 

Also a friend told me you can put Redex diesel in the tank aswell if you want to protec your engine more.

 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Biodiesel

I'm not sure how your affected when it comes to UK tax on the old fuel for cars BUT... LPG is cheap at the mo.. around 35p a ltr ( god I hope thats right lol ), how ever its not well know this is because for at least another 2 or 3 years more the giverment commited not to tax it to death... when that happerns we'll be at square one.

 

Now - BIODesile is in a simualr postion except the goverment can tax it by classing it as a crop or some thing... they just dont as its not widely in use. That been said you can guarantee they will jump on the band wagon and tax us to death just as soon as they can... again back to sqaure one.

 

Re the CO2 - yep the levels are about the same but its about been a renewable source and there are some very small savings else where in the production process that off set this.. ( I think )....

 

Terran

[Amadeus]

Hi,

Biodiesel does not require any engine conversion.....[snip]

Hope this helps.

Cheers.

Phil

Hi Phil,

 

Can I take it that you were the chap I was talking to at the motor show, or at least that you're connected to the station selling Biodiesel over here soon?

 

When you say "very high pressure systems", do you mean modern "common rail" systems? Just wondering, as I think that the more cars can run on it, the better...

[veggiepower]

Hi Amadeus,

You are correct; but I'm only posting to try to correct some of the misconceptions people have around biodiesel..... almost all common rails will run on well made biodiesel from the evidence I've read - see the site below under "biodiesel" section.

 

The stories I've read seem to centre around very high pressure injection systems some of which use pressures of 16,000 psi plus; some European/Japanese manufacturers in their very latest engines. The issues seem to centre around potential separation of fuel molecules under such high pressures. There hasn't been much scientific evidence/research done to prove/disprove this theory tho' (that i can find)

A useful website is:

 

www. goatindustries.co.uk.

People need to make up their own minds about whether biodiesel is for their vehicle using available evidence. Plus check their maufacturers warranty as before.

Cheers,

Phil

[BigDave]

Re the CO2 - yep the levels are about the same but its about been a renewable source and there are some very small savings else where in the production process that off set this.. ( I think )....

The difference with the CO2 emissions is that with biodiesel, the carbon emissions are equivalent to that which the initial crop absorbed from the atmosphere, effectively making the carbon value neutral compared to fossil fuels where the carbon was removed from the atmosphere millions of years ago.

[Albert Tatlock]

Re the CO2 - yep the levels are about the same but its about been a renewable source and there are some very small savings else where in the production process that off set this.. ( I think )....

The difference with the CO2 emissions is that with biodiesel, the carbon emissions are equivalent to that which the initial crop absorbed from the atmosphere, effectively making the carbon value neutral compared to fossil fuels where the carbon was removed from the atmosphere millions of years ago.

Wouldn't there be additional carbon from the burning of the plant (constructed from not just the carbon absorbed during growth) but all of the nutrients/materials and fertiliser absorbed from the ground (burnt and released)? Better than fossil fuels...but not truly carbon neutral?

[BigDave]

Wouldn't there be additional carbon from the burning of the plant (constructed from not just the carbon absorbed during growth) but all of the nutrients/materials and fertiliser absorbed from the ground (burnt and released)? Better than fossil fuels...but not truly carbon neutral?

Not as far as I'm aware from what I've read on the subject. As far as I know (with my basic schoolboy-esque understanding of biology) the only source of carbon absorbed by green plants is from carbon dioxide in the air.

[ccsnet]

Re the CO2 - yep the levels are about the same but its about been a renewable source and there are some very small savings else where in the production process that off set this.. ( I think )....

The difference with the CO2 emissions is that with biodiesel, the carbon emissions are equivalent to that which the initial crop absorbed from the atmosphere, effectively making the carbon value neutral compared to fossil fuels where the carbon was removed from the atmosphere millions of years ago.

Thought that was it....

 

Terran

[sideways]

I don't think that the man at St. Marks was making it to this standard or if he was it wasn't tested

 

I know that "the man at St Marks" has had his fuel tested and it conforms with all the european standards ,he is just struggleing with insurance problems at the moment . but hopefully Manx Bio Diesel shall be back available soon...

[captainmorgan]

A friend of mine has been using bio fuel for some time as part of a university project and is finding his trials very successful.

[simon]

Pump motor diesel sold in France is 5% biodiesel AFAIK.

 

Carrefour (big like Tesco) in France are currently charging € 0.999 /litre for pump diesel. Their cheapest vegetable cooking oil is roughly the same price in 1 litre bottles. The French motorway price for pump diesel is typically eg €1.16 /litre.

 

So in France - it doesn't seem to make a huge price difference whether you run on supermarket vegetable cooking oil, a mixture, or straight pump diesel. Though perhaps veg oil is a bit cheaper at a 'cash and carry'.

 

AFAIK - if you run your car on straight vegetable oil (SVO) in the UK or IOM then you are now (again) supposed to pay HMCE the full rate for fuel duty (47.1 p / litre ?) . Certified biodiesel is taxed at the lower rate (appx 30p /litre ?). Am I right about that ?

 

AFAIK my car is supposed to be okay (and possibly better) with 100% (B100) biodiesel which is taxed at the lower rate by HMCE. Granted I'm likely to have to change the fuel filter after the first few hundred miles. I'll be very interested to see what the garage in Laxey will be charging per litre for B100 (and they will possibly have higher overheads and shipping costs).

 

I'm interested to find the cheapest price on the IOM for SVO (or a source of cheap waste veg oil to filter). I'd be tempted to get an older high mileage diesel (perhaps a MK3 Golf) and run it on the IOM on filtered waste vegetable oil or a mixture with pump diesel (except that I suspect that waste vegetable oil is already in short supply). I'd stick my more modern car in the garage and keep it for off island. But to remain legal I'd have to pay my fuel tax direct to HMCE.

 

Am I right in thinking that vegetable oil (as opposed to 'biodiesel') used as motor fuel is now taxed at the same rate as pump diesel?

 

EDIT: also (less) interested in the possibilities of heating the house on cheaper veg oil. Converting to veg oil isn't just about the environment - it's also about the world political implications of breaking the link with the oil producing countries. Though for me it's mostly about possible cost savings.

[veggiepower]

Hi Simon,

I've been running various cars on waste vegetable oil (WVO) for about 4 years now and am one of the people bringing biodiesel to the station at Laxey; so I may be able to answer some of your queries:

1) I pay 27.1 pence per litre duty to Customs and Excise here at this time; due to go up to 28.2 from September 2006.

Across: different areas seem to charge either 47.1 pence duty or 27.1; the reason being that there is a debate as to whether biodiesel.

(taxed at the lesser rate) and veg. oil should be treated in the same way for tax purposes. In theory what you have to do is have your straight/waste oil tested to prove the "fuel quality" in terms of ester/sulphur/acid/water content. I've not done that and haven't had any hassle (yet) They'd have to take me to court; no one either here or across has had that happen when paying the lower rate (YET)

Biodiesel is taxed at 27.1 ppl.

We're looking at charging 94 or 95 pence per litre at the pump for B100. Shipping costs to IOM work out at about 6 pence per litre.

Sources of WVO are available on IOM -try your local pub/chippy provided they aren't using oil that's solid at room temprature and preferably not hydrogenated.

We'd prefer to buy biodiesel locally from someone like Bill Hine IF it was tested regularly to EN14214; we won't sell anything that's not to that standard. Obviously the price will go down if we buy locally.

 

As for veggie suitable vehicles: Anything before about 1998 with a BOSCH pump; not Direct Injection or computer controlled; not a LUCAS pump as they break when using veggie. Best are: Mk3 Golfs/Passats; Citroen/Peugeots with the XUD engine (405/306)and Bosch Pump (some have Lucas pumps fitted); older Mercedes e.g 190; W124; 200. Nissan Primera; Toyota Hilux; Pajero/Shogun; possibly with a twin tank conversion.Mercs will run all year round with up to 100% veg oil. All except Mercedes with a variable blend of diesel/veggie and modifications e.g heat exchanger.

SVO was around £1.42 for 3 litres at Tesco the last time I looked ....

Cheers,

Phil