Chinahand Posted September 13, 2006 Share Posted September 13, 2006 I'm reposting MCB's original post which was closed down by Ans because MCB gives stupid topic titles and is obsessed by the newsbot. Ignoring MCB's eccentricities the airport extension is probably one of the most important infrastructure projects on the Island. The DOT and the airport seem terrified that the noise abatement mob and nimbies will put up such a fuss that the project will fail if they admit that the plans will allow the airport to be 737 regular and so are emphasising safety margins and the stopping distances of the current regular jet the 146. I suppose I can understand their worries, but people really should think about the advantages to the Island of being 737 fully capable. The 146 is a specialist 4 engine jet. Its maintanance heavy and has a price premium. The 737 is the bus of the aviation world, reliable, with huge advantages of scale due to it being the aircraft of choice for mid distance flying. Having the airport being able to take this jet on a schedule basis will transform the Island's aviation. The existing airlines will change over to a lower cost aircraft from what they are currently using; AND airlines which were loath to come to the Island will be able to fit us in with much less disruption ... I don't promise anything, but the Easyjets and Ryan Airs definitely don't come to the Island at the moment partly due to the runway length at Ronaldsway. MCB's post also raises another important issue for the Island: executive jets. The Island is poorly served with facilities for executive aviation; if you compare us to the Channel Island they have modern well built facilities to allow the bankers and wheeler dealers to fly in and out of their airports conveniently. There is no business centre at the airport, no handling area or hangerage to deal with executive jets ... hence hardly any come to the Island. Compare this with the Channel Islands where there is a flourishing business aviation business ... my conclusion its not a lack of demand, but a lack of facilities which is holding back this industry which will directly bring important business people to the Island in a manner they are acccustomed to. MCB's original post in all her unique style: Plans to be lodged for runway extension Posted on the 12 September 2006 10:51:06 A planning application submitted to DLGE this week might well make planners sit up and take notice – it’s not every day they consider a two hundred metre promontory running out to sea. But the extension to the runway at Ronaldsway will mean the airport can keep up with international rules on safety areas. The current area at the end of the runway won’t be long enough to meet new aviation standards. Airport Director Philip Pain says the extension is about one thing only (audio file attached): but doesn't the bit in the audio about bigger planes seem at a difference to this article in the Observer about smaller jets landing at Ronaldsway.... A new breed of tiny jets, carrying as few as four passengers, is set to revolutionise air travel by offering air taxi services that will cost up to 30 times less than current private planes......'They might not be right for people who buy Easyjet flights months in advance to get the best deal, but it will suit those who need to get to and from smaller airports, such as in the Isle of Man, or small groups and families who want to get somewhere quickly or in luxury,' said Broom. full text at:- http://observer.guardian.co.uk/travel/stor...1863548,00.html Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
When Skies Are Grey Posted September 13, 2006 Share Posted September 13, 2006 Interesting post, particulalry with regard to the executive jet issue....perhaps they could combine such a development with that of the commercial aircraft register (which I for one am keenly anticipating as it could bring a lot of business to the Island) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Albert Tatlock Posted September 13, 2006 Share Posted September 13, 2006 Worth lobbying in favour for this. If the nimby's push it out, it could cost those of us who regularly fly, either on holiday and/or business, many thousands of pounds over the next few years by not doing this. The airport is a strategic link for the islands economy, and IMHO no parish pump politics should get in the way of that. It's not like we would be talking flights at night and 24 hour operation etc. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jim Posted September 13, 2006 Share Posted September 13, 2006 It's not like we would be talking flights at night and 24 hour operation etc. ba would like that, it would be ideal for there maintainance operation. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
steven ! Posted September 13, 2006 Share Posted September 13, 2006 Fat Kat Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spanna Posted September 13, 2006 Share Posted September 13, 2006 The 737 is the bus of the aviation world, reliable, with huge advantages of scale due to it being the aircraft of choice for mid distance flying. Having the airport being able to take this jet on a schedule basis will transform the Island's aviation. The existing airlines will change over to a lower cost aircraft from what they are currently using; AND airlines which were loath to come to the Island will be able to fit us in with much less disruption ... I don't promise anything, but the Easyjets and Ryan Airs definitely don't come to the Island at the moment partly due to the runway length at Ronaldsway. MCB's post also raises another important issue for the Island: executive jets. The Island is poorly served with facilities for executive aviation; if you compare us to the Channel Island they have modern well built facilities to allow the bankers and wheeler dealers to fly in and out of their airports conveniently. There is no business centre at the airport, no handling area or hangerage to deal with executive jets ... hence hardly any come to the Island. The exisiting airlines would not switch over to "lower cost aircraft". You cant get any lower cost than prop a/c for short distance regional flying. Considering none of the existing airlines can fill 50 seats regularly getting a shiny jet doesnt mean they can suddenly find another 70 pax for every flight. Ryanair and Easyjet both decided not to come here not because of the runway length but because none of the routes would have a high enough yield. and there is a handling and hangerage area for executive jets. Island Aviation deal with them. down near the ics building. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lectro Posted September 13, 2006 Share Posted September 13, 2006 While everyone seems to agree that a longer runway is necessary for larger jets and the DLGE and associates are keen to progress, I've yet to see any details of who would fly here, what the new routes would be, where you would get sufficient numbers of travellers to make it cost effective and more importantly how long it will take to recoup the cost. I'm concerned that this will end up yet another costly white elephant (incinerator, power station, etc). The numbers don't appear to add up - who's pet project is this? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mojomonkey Posted September 13, 2006 Share Posted September 13, 2006 ...... and the DLGE and associates are keen to progress...... The only involvement that DLGE has is the assessment of the planning application. It's neither to their advantage nor disadvantage if the planning application is approved or refused. The planning application should not be looking at commercial need, rather it is the purpose of the planning application to look at environmental impacts, effect on residential amenity, etc. I wish people would understand that it is not DLGE that submits the planning applications. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lonan3 Posted September 13, 2006 Share Posted September 13, 2006 if you compare us to the Channel Island they have modern well built facilities to allow the bankers and wheeler dealers to fly in and out of their airports conveniently. Including ironing boards for the freshly-laundered money, perhaps? Seriously, I believe the runway extension is obviously designed to let bigger jet aircraft such as the 737s and this has to be a step in the right direction. On it's own, it will clearly not tempt the Ryanair/Easyjet people - putting together a package that might do so is something to occupy the minds of the next Tynwald. But even in the short term, it opens up possibilities for more direct flights to destinations outside the Atlantic Isles, so I hope the Nimbys are put in their places over this. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chinahand Posted September 13, 2006 Author Share Posted September 13, 2006 The exisiting airlines would not switch over to "lower cost aircraft". You cant get any lower cost than prop a/c for short distance regional flying. Considering none of the existing airlines can fill 50 seats regularly getting a shiny jet doesnt mean they can suddenly find another 70 pax for every flight. Ryanair and Easyjet both decided not to come here not because of the runway length but because none of the routes would have a high enough yield. As I explained in my post I am not talking about the turbo props I'm talking about the 146. If the runway is longer the existing airlines will no longer use 146s for their London runs ... are you really claiming they will continue to use a specialist 4 jet engine aircraft compared to a bog standard 2 engine one! and there is a handling and hangerage area for executive jets. Island Aviation deal with them. down near the ics building. To describe an area of concrete and a shed an executive aviation facility shows how out of touch you are with what the people who use these types of aircraft expect. We need a proper business aviation centre with conference facilities, meeting rooms, an executive lounge etc. Not a handling agent who can phone the refuelling truck and provide instant coffee in a plastic cup. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr Crabster Posted September 13, 2006 Share Posted September 13, 2006 Langness would be ideal for a new airport. Does anyone live there? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Utah 01 Posted September 13, 2006 Share Posted September 13, 2006 Perhaps our friendly CEO might wish to make a reappearance and explain why he has decided to drop out of the jet age and downsize to rather 'tired' and 'well worn' turbo propellor aircraft (refering here to the interiors - I hope the rest of the aircraft is in better shape) and why his company isn't flying Islanders to various parts of Europe direct. I think I know what he'll say but perhaps his 'professional' input would put the myth of a sustainable 737 operation to and from the Island to bed? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spanna Posted September 13, 2006 Share Posted September 13, 2006 As I explained in my post I am not talking about the turbo props I'm talking about the 146. If the runway is longer the existing airlines will no longer use 146s for their London runs ... are you really claiming they will continue to use a specialist 4 jet engine aircraft compared to a bog standard 2 engine one! To describe an area of concrete and a shed an executive aviation facility shows how out of touch you are with what the people who use these types of aircraft expect. We need a proper business aviation centre with conference facilities, meeting rooms, an executive lounge etc. Not a handling agent who can phone the refuelling truck and provide instant coffee in a plastic cup. There aren't AirlineS using 146s here. there is one 146 flying into the Isle of man. That is BA connects. I will go further than claim, I will guarantee BA connect will NEVER change to a 737 for the Isle of Man. Btw what does "specialist 4 jet engine aircraft" mean? Ive never heard that used in the Airline industry before. an area of concrete and a shed.. or a major corner of the airfield and 5 hangars? There are several executive jets based here. And quite a few regular visitors. Not mentioning the big movie stars that all come in in Exec jets. Noone seems to be complaining. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tuna Sandwich Posted September 13, 2006 Share Posted September 13, 2006 Langness would be ideal for a new airport. Does anyone live there? No one important, only Clarkeson!! (Joke). There was a program about the runway extention on the radio ages ago that basically said without the extention some Euro directive would mean that as of some date they could only fly commercial aircraft with a maximum seat capacity of around 40 to IOM. I cannot reamember the exact figure but I know it was under 50 because the change meant that both the 146 and the Eurojets would no longer be able to fly here. The Eurojet seats 49 (from memory). The thing is, Jersey had an extention put on their runway about 10 years ago, but I am sure it is not much longer than Ronaldways main runway, and they have 737s every day. If we are having to extend by the amount it appears it will be far longer than Jersey, and Jersey have very limited option as far as extention is concerned (one end goes off a cliff, the other into a village). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cumover Posted September 13, 2006 Share Posted September 13, 2006 Dear oh dear, plenty of people blurting on about this subject who know very little about aviation and it's economics. Easyjet or Ryanair will have no interest in operating on and off the rock because it would simply not make any money on a hop to the uk never mind Europe. This is with or without a runway extension. The runway extension is a for safety reasons to comply with new laws, nothing to do with bigger jets. We only have 70k people on his island, stop thinking it is more like 700k. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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