Lost Login Posted October 21, 2006 Share Posted October 21, 2006 No that is not a more balanced argument it is an argument. The report was on what causes accidents not what does not cause accidents therefore reports etc are going to quote the statistics from that angle. Just as the news reports if an event occurs not if an event does not occur. not picking any argument with you on this either, but a report on the causes of severe accidents that concentrates on the minority isn't particularly balanced. One that would be far more difficult to write that looked at the majority of serious accidents would be better balanced - if the problem is drivers not paying attention then re-test every 5 years or so to encourage better discipline and/or take the least able off the road. Do they have statistics on how many accidents are caused by drivers with poor eyesight and/or mobility in their limbs? Probably not as eyecatching as speeding which is always going to be more topical and would it be a bit obvious to tell road users that if they can't see properly they shouldn't be driving? I am not sure I argued that the report was or not balanced. My argument originally was that the 4% statistic quoted in this thread was probably not themost relevant to the discussion. The 4% statistic quoted was a as quick aside that speed was barely an issue in accidents. My point was that it was the figures quoted in the report would appear to suggest it was relevant in serious accidents and those causing death. I think it may have been the top reason after "loosing control" which to me is not really a reason. The reason is why you lost control. I am not or have not argued that it is the main reason, sole reason, whether it is fair or not. Merely I pointed out that to me the serious accident figure was more relevant in terms of discussion. Your point with regard to eye sight etc may be valid, just as the conditions of vehicle may be. I believe the police have recently done roadside testing on eyesight, this may have been in the UK, and in the Island are shortly to have a week long purge on defective vehicles. Accidents though as a result of those issues are less likely to make the headlines in the long run for several reasons. Where speed is an issue the results may be more "spectacular". I apologise for the use of this word in respect of crashes involving death but could not think of anything more appropriate. It is much easier to calculate that speed after an accident than eyesight. It is a simple issue which is visible to all. You and I can see if somebody is driving at sixty in a thirty zone. I can not tell if he has dodgy eyesight. Finally it is a simple for the "road safety lobby" to hang a hat on. Stop the speeding and cut accidents by "X". They "road safety lobby" do actually argue for other things away from speed but as speed is such an emotive issue it hogs the headline. In all that and previoulsy I have not argued the speeding isuue purely why I used the staistic and why "people" appear to deem it relevant. As I said previoulsy I get peeved off when people pick and spin statistics or from different reports or surveys to try and proove a point. I have not problem them being used just when they are spun. In the case of accident figures the numbers that are relevant to me are the "serious" ones. Whether caused by speed, defective vehicles or hitting an elephant in the road. These have the potentail to cause serious problems to me, my family and friends. I am far less concerned if they reverse into the side of another car on the prom etc, etc as although annoying and expensive cars can be fixed replaced. By the way I write this as somebody who has had two serious car crashes in my life. Once as a 11 year old and once as a driver. Both resulted in visits to hospital but only for cuts and bruising, whip lash etc. In neither do I believe speed was an issue. Afterwards I could not give a damn about the vehicles only my self and fellow occupants hence my concer with the "serious" accident figures rather than the odd prangs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stu Peters Posted October 21, 2006 Share Posted October 21, 2006 I always read these threads on driving matters with interest (it's part of my job anyway) and I'd just like to add another thought. Not on the legitimacy of speed controls or otherwise for a change. Strikes me increasingly these days that a real fundamental problem, and one that's probably responsible for many accidents but not part of the reporting process, is the 'dog in a manger' attitude that often surfaces on this forum in debates. There's an almost pious range of viewpoints usually expressed that 'speed limits are good and make roads safer', or that 'these are public roads and not a racetrack for boy racers', or 'you should be enjoying the scenery - what's the rush', or 'I have every right to do 30mph over the mountain road if I want to'. It's this group of people - often elderly in my experience - that creates the moving roadblocks that lead to frustration, and from that to dangerous overtakes and accidents. I'm not excusing the dangerous overtakes, merely illustrating how ordinarily sane drivers end up taking chances. And not only do they refuse to pull over to let faster traffic pass them, they gesticulate and flash you if you DO get past, as though you're Beelzebub incarnate. I don't have the slightest problem with people who are quicker than me - if I'm hooning around in my sports car and a Scooby or a GTI come up behind me, the last thing I want to do is race them or impede them - so I'll give them an easy overtake. But I've had a couple of occasions (in car and on bike) where someone I'm passing actually drifts right to make it more difficult to make the pass - hence my dog in a manger comment. Is there no road courtesy any more? I'm not questioning your masculinity by wanting to pass you - you may be out for a gentle potter and I might be working to a deadline. People get SO worked up about people who want to get a move on - I got a text this week from someone moaning about why I think it's big and clever to drive at 120mph, when I was trying to get views on something completely unconnected! And doing a road test for my car programme a few weeks ago, I took the liveried demonstrator back to the dealership to be told I'd been reported for driving too fast on the Mountain Mile and overtaking THREE cars - wtf was THAT all about? Turbo envy?? I suggested the complainant should be furnished with my contact details and invited to meet me at the police station, but I've not heard anything since... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Agitator Posted October 21, 2006 Share Posted October 21, 2006 I always read these threads on driving matters with interest (it's part of my job anyway) and I'd just like to add another thought. Not on the legitimacy of speed controls or otherwise for a change. Strikes me increasingly these days that a real fundamental problem, and one that's probably responsible for many accidents but not part of the reporting process, is the 'dog in a manger' attitude that often surfaces on this forum in debates. There's an almost pious range of viewpoints usually expressed that 'speed limits are good and make roads safer', or that 'these are public roads and not a racetrack for boy racers', or 'you should be enjoying the scenery - what's the rush', or 'I have every right to do 30mph over the mountain road if I want to'. It's this group of people - often elderly in my experience - that creates the moving roadblocks that lead to frustration, and from that to dangerous overtakes and accidents. I'm not excusing the dangerous overtakes, merely illustrating how ordinarily sane drivers end up taking chances. And not only do they refuse to pull over to let faster traffic pass them, they gesticulate and flash you if you DO get past, as though you're Beelzebub incarnate. I don't have the slightest problem with people who are quicker than me - if I'm hooning around in my sports car and a Scooby or a GTI come up behind me, the last thing I want to do is race them or impede them - so I'll give them an easy overtake. But I've had a couple of occasions (in car and on bike) where someone I'm passing actually drifts right to make it more difficult to make the pass - hence my dog in a manger comment. Is there no road courtesy any more? I'm not questioning your masculinity by wanting to pass you - you may be out for a gentle potter and I might be working to a deadline. People get SO worked up about people who want to get a move on - I got a text this week from someone moaning about why I think it's big and clever to drive at 120mph, when I was trying to get views on something completely unconnected! And doing a road test for my car programme a few weeks ago, I took the liveried demonstrator back to the dealership to be told I'd been reported for driving too fast on the Mountain Mile and overtaking THREE cars - wtf was THAT all about? Turbo envy?? I suggested the complainant should be furnished with my contact details and invited to meet me at the police station, but I've not heard anything since... o give it a rest stu. we are all looking forward to see how fast we can get round the new (safer) corner. you included. anyway i belive the traffic police have you on their hitlist! good job its not the armed response unit!! lol Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pat Ayres Posted October 21, 2006 Share Posted October 21, 2006 Back to the title of this thread. I had a bit of fortune today, after a trip to Douglas on my newly mutilated Vespa I returned via the mountain road, at least as far as the Creg, road closed for a careful driver no doubt, and the whole of Brandish was open! no controls and both sides as well. At only 65 I could tell it is now a very fast corner, smooth, nice camber and loads of forward visibility. Well done lads, I see 130mph laps all over the place next year. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Juan Kerr Posted October 21, 2006 Share Posted October 21, 2006 Well done lads, I see 130mph laps all over the place next year. Or some very serious accidents entering Hillberry which is tight and still has a pronounced camber, but will be entered into about 45mph quicker than last year because of the Brandish improvements. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pat Ayres Posted October 22, 2006 Share Posted October 22, 2006 Good point Juan. (i was being sarcastic BTW) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Albert Tatlock Posted October 22, 2006 Share Posted October 22, 2006 Or some very serious accidents entering Hillberry which is tight and still has a pronounced camber, but will be entered into about 45mph quicker than last year because of the Brandish improvements. A very good point...I have watched the races for years at vantage points from Brandish down to signpost, and Hillberry has had more than its fair share of accidents. At the very least much better signage highlighting the severity of the bend for riders is needed at Hillberry following the adjustments at Brandish. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ramsea Posted October 23, 2006 Share Posted October 23, 2006 I'm dreading Hillberry this year, its going to be a complete nightmare. Its a horrible corner at the best of times, but now with the massive increase in entering speed it will be a deathtrap. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bombay Bad Boy Posted October 23, 2006 Share Posted October 23, 2006 I'm dreading Hillberry this year, its going to be a complete nightmare. Its a horrible corner at the best of times, but now with the massive increase in entering speed it will be a deathtrap. satire Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
When Skies Are Grey Posted October 23, 2006 Share Posted October 23, 2006 I see that they have just covered the old road with gravel....would have made a great site for a grandstand methinks...at least for next year anyway!?!?! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TerryMcCann Posted October 23, 2006 Share Posted October 23, 2006 I'm dreading Hillberry this year, its going to be a complete nightmare. Its a horrible corner at the best of times, but now with the massive increase in entering speed it will be a deathtrap. I think the DoT own the land on the inside of Hillberry (they have a depot there don't they) I expect this will be their next improvement project. What they will do on signpost corner after that though god knows Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
feelslikeitshould Posted October 23, 2006 Share Posted October 23, 2006 And then Governers bridge.....and Braddan bridge....Ballacraine....That one at the top of Glen Helen....why don't they just smooth out all the corners and make it a big oval? Far faster. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Albert Tatlock Posted October 23, 2006 Share Posted October 23, 2006 And then Governers bridge.....and Braddan bridge....Ballacraine....That one at the top of Glen Helen....why don't they just smooth out all the corners and make it a big oval? Far faster. All these straight roads! They've obviously got a couple of italians (Romans) working at the DoT. I suspect their names are Amfact Davano and his brother Ambugga Davano. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Albert Tatlock Posted October 27, 2006 Share Posted October 27, 2006 According to MR: "The new-look Brandish Corner is nearing completion, thanks to fair weather and a quieter than expected traffic flow over the Mountain Road. Work started on the scheme on September the 18th and is now on course to finish three weeks ahead of schedule, a spokesman for the Department of Transport confirmed." Notice how they turn a gross mis-calculation of the work involved (at least 33%) into a positive. What the heck has traffic flow got to do with the work anyway, if you have traffic lights either side of the work taking place? And we haven't had Novembers weather yet. Propaganda merchants! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TerryMcCann Posted October 27, 2006 Share Posted October 27, 2006 According to MR: "The new-look Brandish Corner is nearing completion, thanks to fair weather and a quieter than expected traffic flow over the Mountain Road. Work started on the scheme on September the 18th and is now on course to finish three weeks ahead of schedule, a spokesman for the Department of Transport confirmed." Notice how they turn a gross mis-calculation of the work involved (at least 33%) into a positive. What the heck has traffic flow got to do with the work anyway, if you have traffic lights either side of the work taking place? And we haven't had Novembers weather yet. Propaganda merchants! They do this all the time. (Roundabout at Johnny Watterson's Lane, Windy Corner etc). Braddan Bridge will be the next one finished 'ahead' of schedule. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Archived
This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.