Juan Kerr Posted September 20, 2006 Share Posted September 20, 2006 I don't make any secret of my identity, visit my profile or read some of my other posts Don't let the criticism put you off posting. I for one think that you clearly know your subject and have given valuable insight on the legal issues. Its clearly an emotive debate, driven largely by what appears to be very inconsistent sentencing. But its really good to hear your views as someone with knowledge of the legal process. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
%age Posted September 20, 2006 Share Posted September 20, 2006 I second the above. Cheers for your input to the forum. (but one or two points I would like to take up sometime later!) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Wright Posted September 20, 2006 Share Posted September 20, 2006 Thank you, I wasn't being put off. I think you have very succinctly hit the nail on the head, the difficulty is the aparent inconsistency The alternative is fixed sentences, imposed by Tynwald. That would leave judges with no discretion. That really would make for hard cases and bad law and would bring the law into disrepute. Its no better than 3 strikes and you are out, which if you think about it is deferred fixed or mandatory sentencing, or hang ecvery one or send them to the colonies I have represented a lot of people over the yeras, one or two were really mad or bad the majority in the wrong place at the wrog time or weak, foolish, ill or desperate. Locking up, something which is so deeply imbedded in the British and Manx psyche can have done none of them any good. I don't know the victim or assailant from Adam, but I suspect a yera or two inside will not rehabilitate him, something else might. As the person who got Victim Suppport off the ground I don't forget about the victim either but imprisoning his assailant is not going to do him any real good either. I accept we don't deal with victims well either Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Juan Kerr Posted September 20, 2006 Share Posted September 20, 2006 I have represented a lot of people over the yeras, one or two were really mad or bad the majority in the wrong place at the wrog time or weak, foolish, ill or desperate. And some people seem to build up an audited chain of carnage at the publics expense. This one seems to be in this category which makes the sentencing stick out a mile. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
%age Posted September 20, 2006 Share Posted September 20, 2006 . . . . . . £350 per hour, and I have been there, is for large commercial cases and very experienced senior advocates, and we have several who would be Q.C.'s if they were practising in England, or because they think you have duff case, don't want to turn you down and are hoping they will price you out, but are willing to accept your instructions if they are insulted eneough Not according to the Chief Registrar, who I believe is more than happy to allow £350 per hour or so for advocates in relatively trivial local land law cases. If it makes money for his mates on Athol Street then why not! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stookie Posted September 20, 2006 Share Posted September 20, 2006 Are you in the Masonic Directory? Just for the record. Absolutely not What an insult Coose your weapon, name your second and state where we can meet at dawn! so that's "yes" then Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sperm Whale Posted September 20, 2006 Share Posted September 20, 2006 Police have demonstrated time and time again they are no more likely to act within the constraints of the law than any of us. Think about ALL the cases of police bribery, corruption and lying you can think about here and in the UK over the last few years, there are loads. The law is an arse, think once again about beasts, rapists and murderers receiving shorter sentences than drug dealers. So there we go, police cant be trusted, judges cant be trusted and lawyers cant be trusted. Next......... ! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Wright Posted September 20, 2006 Share Posted September 20, 2006 . . . . . . £350 per hour, and I have been there, is for large commercial cases and very experienced senior advocates, and we have several who would be Q.C.'s if they were practising in England, or because they think you have duff case, don't want to turn you down and are hoping they will price you out, but are willing to accept your instructions if they are insulted eneough Not according to the Chief Registrar, who I believe is more than happy to allow £350 per hour or so for advocates in relatively trivial local land law cases. If it makes money for his mates on Athol Street then why not! If he is allowing that I would be advising appealing if my client was on the paying end of the bill. That rate is more than you might expect to recover for a complex comercial case or a medical negligence case. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LoneWolf Posted September 20, 2006 Share Posted September 20, 2006 If he is allowing that I would be advising appealing if my client was on the paying end of the bill. That rate is more than you might expect to recover for a complex comercial case or a medical negligence case. You may as well give up on this one. Fact & Reason arent considerations in a thread which seems to have everything [ Freemasons, religious cranks, ex Chief Constables, barmy sentencing, Athol Street lawyers] Plenty of opportunity there for home cooked conspiracy theories. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gladys Posted September 20, 2006 Share Posted September 20, 2006 Had a long debate some time ago about how the judges do not make the law but interpret and apply it. There seems to be a misguided belief that judges (or here, Deemsters) are a law unto themselves. But they are not. The judiciary doesn't just wake up one morning and decide that they will take a particular line on a particular matter; they take the case law, statute and guidelines and apply it to the case in hand. That may lead to moral injustices but not necessarily legal injustices. Of course, there is some latitude in interpretation and the appeals process does allow new law through precedent. I do recall there was some case which made reference to the effect of the judge's breakfast on his disposition, but I don't think it was ever used as a precedent! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LoneWolf Posted September 20, 2006 Share Posted September 20, 2006 I do recall there was some case which made reference to the effect of the judge's breakfast on his disposition, but I don't think it was ever used as a precedent! Possibly of more relevence on the Island [not in this case I hasten to add] is the effect of excess alcohol consumption on judgement. Deemsters to be breath tested? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ean Posted September 21, 2006 Share Posted September 21, 2006 And that document is Manx law is it? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ans Posted September 21, 2006 Share Posted September 21, 2006 So for an Advocate to bring up in court that the witness was fined £2.12d for playing football in the street some 40 years ago and that he had a serious record of parking fines over 20 years ago before the instant fine system came in is OK Was that all that was revealed? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tugger Posted September 21, 2006 Share Posted September 21, 2006 So for an Advocate to bring up in court that the witness was fined £2.12d for playing football in the street some 40 years ago and that he had a serious record of parking fines over 20 years ago before the instant fine system came in is OK Was that all that was revealed? It's not exactly Pol Pot is it? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ans Posted September 21, 2006 Share Posted September 21, 2006 Kinda my point. The latter of those charges being staggeringly ironic. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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