Nuclear Proliferation

[Chinahand]

North Korea is threatening a nuclear test:

 

BBC Link

 

To say this could be very very serious is putting it very mildly indeed!

 

North Korea and Iran are using each others example to further their nuclear aims. This is seriously worrying their neighbours, the US, the other permanent members of the UN etc etc and could start a very nasty arms race in the middle and far east.

 

The non proliferation treaties are breaking down and nuclear proliferation is a very great risk. With more states having these weapons the risks of error and disaster can only increase. Plus nuclear states seem to take their ownership of these weapons as a reason to be more belicous as they think they have greater security from attack.

 

Could make the world a nasty place if what looks likely to happen actually occurs.

[joeyconcrete]

Do you think the US (And the West) would use force? How much is known about the North Korean armed forces nowadays, are they quite dated given the years of sanctions etc? The thing is, if all this was to kick off - my concern is that other similar parties (Iran etc) would sieze the opportunity and stretch the armed forces to the limit. On the otherhand they may just be empty threats to get a reaction with the hope to releasing sanctions.

[Lonan3]

On the otherhand they may just be empty threats to get a reaction with the hope to releasing sanctions.

 

It seems likely that they're trying to force some sort of 'deal' with the major powers. I just hope they realise that Bush and his cohorts simply don't understand the concept of diplomatic sabre-rattling and are more than capable of over-reacting to any threat, real or perceived.

[Chinahand]

Some very very strong language from the US:

 

LINK

 

Mr Hill, Washington's top envoy at the stalled six-party talks with North Korea, said the US was rallying its allies in a diplomatic push against Pyongyang.

 

"I am not prepared at this point to say what we are going to do but I am prepared to say we are not going to wait for a nuclear North Korea, we are not going to accept it," he said.

 

He said North Korea had reached "a very important fork in the road - it can have a future or it can have these [nuclear] weapons but it cannot have them both".

Mr Hill said the message had been conveyed to Pyongyang's envoy at the UN but had yet to elicit a response.

 

I think this is sound and fury ... short of destroying South Korea and especially Seoul in a major and very nasty war North Korea is untouchable even without nuclear weapons. The trouble is the other side are using rhetoric which makes it look like they think war is inevitable.

 

Things could rapidly get out of hand.

[K.os Theory]

leave em be, that's my feeling on the matter. I mean why should these countries pander to whatever the US says, I mean who put them in control of saying who can and can't have nuclear energy?

 

If they ( Iran and NK ) want to roll the nuclear dice so be it...

 

 

What's good for the goose, is good for the gander.

[Lovenotfear]

North Korea is threatening a nuclear test:

 

BBC Link

 

To say this could be very very serious is putting it very mildly indeed!

 

North Korea and Iran are using each others example to further their nuclear aims. This is seriously worrying their neighbours, the US, the other permanent members of the UN etc etc and could start a very nasty arms race in the middle and far east.

 

The non proliferation treaties are breaking down and nuclear proliferation is a very great risk. With more states having these weapons the risks of error and disaster can only increase. Plus nuclear states seem to take their ownership of these weapons as a reason to be more belicous as they think they have greater security from attack.

 

Could make the world a nasty place if what looks likely to happen actually occurs.

 

If you care to back-track just a few years, you will find NK got its nuclear capability from a certain company

that just happened to have a Mr Rumsfeld as a director, now what are the chances of that?

[Chinahand]

You are inaccurate Lovenofear.

 

During the Clinton presidency the US tried to buy off the North Koreans by offering them a water reactor. These reactors cannot generate weapons grade material and this was an attempt to try to get them to abandon their weapons program via a civilian nuclear program.

 

Yep, Rumsfeld was a director of the company contracted to supply the technology.

 

However North Korea breeched the agreement very early on and the civilian supplied reactor was NEVER built. So Mr Rumsfeld was involved in an agreed plan by the Clinton regime to buy off a country threatening nuclear proliferation by supplying it free civilian nuclear technology.

 

This is not something a Neo Con would usually sign up to. Many of Mr Rumsfeld's fellow right wingers criticism him for his Clintonesque appeasement of the North Koreans. They saw it as an example of him being soft and taking advice from the Democrats. The reality is almost the opposite of what you claim it is. Its an example of Rumsfeld using agreement and bilateral communications to end a military program and turn it to a civillian purpose. He has since disavowed this approach ... but heck he was once in favour of it!

[Chinahand]

Well they did it: North Korean Nuclear explosion.

 

North Korea says it has carried out its first test of a nuclear weapon, the state news agency (KCNA) has reported.

 

The White House said South Korean and US intelligence had detected a seismic event at a suspected test site.

 

The White House said the reported test was a "provocative act", while China denounced it as "brazen".

In an unusually strong statement against its ally, China expressed its "resolute opposition" to the claimed test and said it "defied the universal opposition of international society".

 

Japan's Prime Minister Shinzo Abe, who is in Seoul for a meeting with South Korean President Roh Moo-hyun, said the test was "unpardonable".

 

Japanese Foreign Minister Taro Aso said Japan had detected seismic waves, but could not confirm whether they were from a nuclear test.

 

South Korea said it would "sternly respond".

 

Our correspondent says there will now be pressure on the UN Security Council to push for a resolution condemning North Korea and probably demanding a stiff menu of economic sanctions.

 

The New Scientist has its own take on the situation, including coordinates of the explosion so you can check it out on Google Earth!!

 

North Korea has carried out its first nuclear weapons test, prompting condemnation from around the world.

 

North Korea says it performed the test to deter a military attack from the US. “It marks a historic event as it greatly pleased the Korean People's Army and people that wished to have a powerful self-reliant defence capability.”

 

Officials in South Korea said an explosion had been detected in the north of its neighbour’s territory, which measured 3.5 on the Richter scale. The US Geological Survey also detected the explosion, giving its magnitude as 4.2, equivalent to a “light” earthquake.

 

The USGS pinpointed the location as 41.311°N, 129.114°E - 385 km (240 miles) north-east of Pyongyang. The time of the explosion is given as 1035 local time (0135 GMT).

 

... the bomb detonated by North Korea is not “weapons deliverable”, according to Joseph Cirincione at the Centre for American Progress, a Washington DC-based think tank. “It can’t be put on a missile and is probably too big for a plane,” Cirincione told the BBC.

[ans]

Happy World War 3 Day everyone!

[slinkydevil]

I fucking hate REM as well but....

 

"It's the end of the worl......."

 

[Albert Tatlock]

IMHO, there is only one person responsible for this test - dubya.

 

From the BBC

"Relations between the US and North Korea have been deteriorating since President George W Bush labelled North Korea part of an "axis of evil" in January 2002. Tensions really started escalating the following October, when the US accused North Korea of developing a secret, uranium-based nuclear weapons programme.

 

Since the October 2002 confrontation, North Korea has restarted a mothballed nuclear power station, thrown out inspectors from the UN's International Atomic Energy Agency and pulled out of the Nuclear Non-proliferation Treaty. It has also upped its frequently doom-laden rhetoric, warning of the risk of nuclear war.

 

It is often very difficult to tell what lies behind North Korea's moves. Pyongyang and its mercurial leader Kim Jong-il act in erratic and contradictory ways. But it seems possible that North Korea has been trying to use the nuclear issue as a hard-line ploy to negotiate a non-aggression pact and improved economic aid from the US. Now that it appears to have given up with negotiation, other countries in the region and the US will have to urgently rethink their strategy."

[Lonan3]

I don't think that apportioning blame can ever be as simple as that. Once the technology was discovered it immediately became inevitable that, sooner or later, it would spread.

The notion that it could be restricted to just a few 'responsible' nations was always a nonsense.

Virtually every nation throughout the world now has access to the necessary technology and will eventually have the necessary equipment.

Proliferation of nuclear weapons is as unavoidable as was the spread of repeating rifles.

[thebees]

I am fond of North Korea, but I do hope they dont decide to take over the world now.

[mollag]

they most likely will in a holywood film coming your way soon, shame for the brit actors as they seem to have a near monopoly in playing black hats in films but not many asiatics at em.

[Chinahand]

IMHO, there is only one person responsible for this test - dubya.

 

From the BBC

"Relations between the US and North Korea have been deteriorating since President George W Bush labelled North Korea part of an "axis of evil" in January 2002. Tensions really started escalating the following October, when the US accused North Korea of developing a secret, uranium-based nuclear weapons programme.

 

Since the October 2002 confrontation, North Korea has restarted a mothballed nuclear power station, thrown out inspectors from the UN's International Atomic Energy Agency and pulled out of the Nuclear Non-proliferation Treaty. It has also upped its frequently doom-laden rhetoric, warning of the risk of nuclear war.

 

It is often very difficult to tell what lies behind North Korea's moves. Pyongyang and its mercurial leader Kim Jong-il act in erratic and contradictory ways. But it seems possible that North Korea has been trying to use the nuclear issue as a hard-line ploy to negotiate a non-aggression pact and improved economic aid from the US. Now that it appears to have given up with negotiation, other countries in the region and the US will have to urgently rethink their strategy."

 

As Lonan3 says apportioning blame isn't so easy as you claim Albert.

 

If the US finding out that the North Koreans have reneged on a deal and challenging them on it is the US escallating this issue then you can say the US are responsible. But in my view its the breaking of the agreement not to develop weapon's technologies that is the substantive issue. The North Koreans have been secretly developing Nuclear weapons technology for years, and have broken deals where they agreed not to do so.

 

Are you really saying if Al Gore had got a few extra votes North Korea wouldn't be a nuclear power today? That seems doubtful ... maybe if Dubya wasn't president the situation MIGHT be less confrontational, but I don't think the facts on the ground would be particularly different ... North Korea going out to get Nuclear Weapons, the US and the rest of the International community wanting to stop them achieving this ambition.

 

The North Koreans cheated on Clinton, why do you think they wouldn't cheat on a President Gore?

 

Bush wacking - easy.

Solving this problem - hard.