Muslim Separation

[Heathen]

but you cannot claim to want to integrate and walk around in a Burka - you might as well cut a slot and two foot holes in a big cardboard box and walk around in that. Its no way to integrate with anyone.

 

I think we should look at setting up a new religion with the most ridiculous clothing. Maybe one that forces you to dress as a pirate with a patch and wooden leg, or perhaps a goldfish bowl on the head, and flippers.

 

You've been to Dalby then?

[John Wright]

Just think of all the immigrant groups who have come over to, or been moved around in, the British Isles (and I use the term loosely) over the last 200 or 300 years. The same accusations have been levelled against them as now against the muslims and the eastern europeans.

 

They take our jobs, they reduce wages, take our houses, they practice a different form of worship, they dress differently, they are ill educated, they eat different food, they are a different colour, society will break down if we don't send them back, expel them, it will be the end of life as we know it.

 

Shame on us! We should welcome them with open arms, but there is a price in return, live by our norms (not even our standards, that is different)

 

We should know better. French Huguenots, silk weavers in Spittalfields, riots, death threats, Jews returning after being excuded for neraly 600 years, East end riots and Mosely, the Irish brought in to dig canals and railway cuttings, catholics, discriminated agianst and kept at the bottom of society for years, the West Indians in the 1950's and 1960's to do jobs no one wanted at the time. They have all enriched our countries and kept their economies going.

 

Most integrated, they adopted the customs, dress and mores of the time and they passed, they intermarried, they were educated together with the original Brits or Manx.

 

It was harder for those of a different skin tone but even there it is starting to happen.

 

I really do feel the essential is education, non religious, secular, education. Abolish church schools, then there could be no claim for muslim schools, integrate, it may mean bussings but there should be no excvlusively or 80% muslim schools, specify a simple uniform, all have to wear. No trappings of religion, no crosses, prayer caps, turbans or veils.

 

We need to teach respect for one another but these manifestations of faith or religious practice should stay where they belong, in the home and in the house of worship.

 

To that extent I think Straw is correct, but the reasoning is suspect. He may look people in the eyes and face, I bet not one in 10 of thise who attend his surgeries do. We manage without eye or face contact for so much communication now electronic, mobile phone, land line, written. If someone oppositeyou is wearing a veil there are other signals you can use, but it's hardly the point.

[localyokel]

They take our jobs, they reduce wages, take our houses, they practice a different form of worship, they dress differently, they are ill educated, they eat different food, they are a different colour, society will break down if we don't send them back, expel them, it will be the end of life as we know it.

 

Shame on us! We should welcome them with open arms, but there is a price in return, live by our norms (not even our standards, that is different)

 

I think you confuse the argument. People are not complaining in a moronic BNP-style "they come 'ere and steal our jobs" way on this. This is about veiling and refusing to abide by western codes of communication, and equally its about security and when you have a group of people that are perpetuating atrocities on British soil why the hell should you allow them to cover their faces when dealing with everyone.

 

If you think how many times a day we are all caught on CCTV, why should a Muslim be allowed to cover up and move around undetected and unchecked particularly when they are 100% more likely than me to be involved in an act of terrorism. Its crazy that at the time we are putting westerners through ridiculous security checks (biometric passports etc next) to travel, we are allowing these people who are in high risk groups to cover up and travel outside of normal scrutiny. Its totally back to front. We've turned into a society of PC arseholes, too frightened to even say it how it is for fear of "offending".

 

A final point. There was a report in the Times recently that the US want to put British citizens through additional security checks (including not letting us into the US without VISA's). The reason? Because all the problems they have had regarding potential terrorists are Pakistani and other nationalities issued with BRITISH passports. These people are making our lives much, much harder and should be given absolutely no opportunity to use their religious beliefs to their advantage.

[John Wright]

Just because the US is going through a spell of right wing zenophobic Mcarthyism is no excuse for them, or for the rest of us to follow their misguided lead.

 

What you are suggesting is down right racist.

 

Those in power are over reacting, any opportunity to do down civil liberties and you are falling for it.

 

Is the threat really any more serious than the IRA or the Red Brigades or Bader Meinhoff or ETA.

How much of it is really spomsored by our state secvurity services to frighten us/influence policy makers.

 

The issue has to be dealt with on cultural grounds, no other grounds are valid

 

We have the answer to the perceived terror threat, get out of Iraq, Afghansistan etc and stop supporting zionism in Israel. Stop persecuting Iran. Throw aid so called at the axis of evil, not bombs.

 

And as for the evil US pseudo christian right, none of them should be allowed to travel anywhere. Expropriate, in trust until they changed their policies, all their foreign assets. They would soon back down.

 

Some of its tongue in cheek, but not very deeply in.

[localyokel]

What you are suggesting is down right racist.

 

Yes. You are totally correct. Because the targeting and bombing of British people on their own soil is downright racist too. Whether your a Muslim, Irish, or Basque terrorist you are committing murder's where racism is the motivating factor (you kill them because they are different to you and you hate them because of this). Why then should you not be subject to restrictions on mobility based on race in return.

 

I think Jack Straw for once is totally correct, and do you know why he's saying it now? Because if he does not the BNP will have a good chance of taking his Blackburn seat in the next election because the average British person is sick of handling the issue with kid gloves (98% of callers to the BBC agreed with him). Its sad but they would rather vote for a bunch of facist knuckle-heads because they have not been struck by the stupid "PC" bug that infects everything new Labour do which panders to minorities (that won't vote for them anyway).

 

So he's right. Take the veils off, show you want to integrate, and start a dialogue with the communities you live in, because those that won't are spoiling it for everyone including members of their OWN community who are happy living in the UK and can balance the cultural and religious issues.

[The Agitator]

muslims have an atitude problem. they hate us. WE ARE THE ONES WHO ARE ON THE RECEIVING END OF RACISM.

 

we are bottom of the pile very time. we hear of the 'muslims community' - there should be no muslim community, there shoiuld just be a single 'community' in Briatin, they are creating sectarinaism. I got a mate who is black - he doesn't start shouting off about what he should have etc, he just mucks in with the rest of us and we don't even think that Paul is 'black' he's just Paul... but this other lot... infuriating!

 

i got no problem with anyone, but if you dont respect the country you are in - Fu*k off!

[Chinahand]

muslims have an atitude problem. they hate us. WE ARE THE ONES WHO ARE ON THE RECEIVING END OF RACISM.

 

we are bottom of the pile very time. we hear of the 'muslims community' - there should be no muslim community, there shoiuld just be a single 'community' in Briatin, they are creating sectarinaism. I got a mate who is black - he doesn't start shouting off about what he should have etc, he just mucks in with the rest of us and we don't even think that Paul is 'black' he's just Paul... but this other lot... infuriating!

 

i got no problem with anyone, but if you dont respect the country you are in - Fu*k off!

 

Its always helpful when someone really gives insite into an issue.

 

I assume you have a wide knowledge of Muslims to be able to educate us about this. Thank you for telling us that the muslim community is a monolithic entity, unifluenced by media depictions of it, which universally excludes itself from the mainstream and hates us.

[localyokel]

muslims have an atitude problem. they hate us. WE ARE THE ONES WHO ARE ON THE RECEIVING END OF RACISM.

 

we are bottom of the pile very time. we hear of the 'muslims community' - there should be no muslim community, there shoiuld just be a single 'community' in Briatin, they are creating sectarinaism. I got a mate who is black - he doesn't start shouting off about what he should have etc, he just mucks in with the rest of us and we don't even think that Paul is 'black' he's just Paul... but this other lot... infuriating!

 

i got no problem with anyone, but if you dont respect the country you are in - Fu*k off!

 

I'm assuming from the punctuation that the above was a "six-pack" post.

[Albert Tatlock]

muslims have an atitude problem. they hate us. WE ARE THE ONES WHO ARE ON THE RECEIVING END OF RACISM.

 

we are bottom of the pile very time. we hear of the 'muslims community' - there should be no muslim community, there shoiuld just be a single 'community' in Briatin, they are creating sectarinaism. I got a mate who is black - he doesn't start shouting off about what he should have etc, he just mucks in with the rest of us and we don't even think that Paul is 'black' he's just Paul... but this other lot... infuriating!

 

i got no problem with anyone, but if you dont respect the country you are in - Fu*k off!

 

I'm assuming from the punctuation that the above was a "six-pack" post.

I understand his point. In a globalised economy there would be little room for the Flintstones to insist that we drive cars made from rock and wood, and use dinosaur cranes - and force us to make it law at everyone else's expense. If these people want to leave the town of Bedrock they need to adapt to the customs of others or stay where they are - and not, (like many minorities and minority lobby groups are currently trying to do in this country over many issues) try to adapt the world to their own thinking.

[Rog]

muslims have an atitude problem. they hate us. WE ARE THE ONES WHO ARE ON THE RECEIVING END OF RACISM.

 

we are bottom of the pile very time. we hear of the 'muslims community' - there should be no muslim community, there shoiuld just be a single 'community' in Briatin, they are creating sectarinaism. I got a mate who is black - he doesn't start shouting off about what he should have etc, he just mucks in with the rest of us and we don't even think that Paul is 'black' he's just Paul... but this other lot... infuriating!

 

i got no problem with anyone, but if you dont respect the country you are in - Fu*k off!

 

 

I totally agree.

[Gladys]

Just as we are questioning the veil as a barrier to integration and understanding, perhaps a few ought to lift their own veil of preconceptions and prejudice.

[MrsTrellisfromNorthWales]

The veil is a really small issue compared with others faced by Muslims in terms of integration.

 

The biggest is language. I have to speak to a huge number of people in my job. (This is a serious post, folks.)

 

Many - if not most Asian (and quite a lot of African) women I try to speak to - have very poor or non-existent English.

 

Without the language, they cannot possibly integrate with the rest of society in the UK.

 

Men from some Asian groups in this country discourage their wives/sisters/mothers from learning the language. It's a form of repression.

 

The women have no real choice but to mix with others who can speak their language. This fuels division. Whole areas become predominantly Muslim. "White flight" adds to the phenomenon.

 

Thieawin is dead right about schools, too. While we have "faith" schools and a government that's actively promoting them, those divisions are going to become even wider.

 

If women want to wear the veil, that's fair enough. I'd no more force a woman to stop wearing a veil than I'd stop a Jew wearing a yarmulke or a Christian from wearing a cross round his/her neck.

[mollag]

Just because the US is going through a spell of right wing zenophobic Mcarthyism is no excuse for them, or for the rest of us to follow their misguided lead.

 

What you are suggesting is down right racist.

 

Those in power are over reacting, any opportunity to do down civil liberties and you are falling for it.

 

Is the threat really any more serious than the IRA or the Red Brigades or Bader Meinhoff or ETA.

How much of it is really spomsored by our state secvurity services to frighten us/influence policy makers.

 

The issue has to be dealt with on cultural grounds, no other grounds are valid

 

We have the answer to the perceived terror threat, get out of Iraq, Afghansistan etc and stop supporting zionism in Israel. Stop persecuting Iran. Throw aid so called at the axis of evil, not bombs.

 

And as for the evil US pseudo christian right, none of them should be allowed to travel anywhere. Expropriate, in trust until they changed their policies, all their foreign assets. They would soon back down.

 

Some of its tongue in cheek, but not very deeply in.

Very well said, you should be a lawyer!

 

Any other area where we can enforce conformity on ethnic minorities? those hasidic jews dress funny, then theres the sikhs and buddists, oh and lest we forget, the Jocks something not quite british about a man in a dress!

 

And of course us brits promise to likewise abide by the noms when we visit other countries, i mean we always have, hav'nt we?

[sarahc]

There's a piece in the Observer that claims Jack Straw is deaf in one ear and needs to lip read to hear properly. And can't when women are wearing the niqab.

[Max Power]

Apparently and according to the Sunday Times, the veil is banned in Turkey and Tunisia, a couple of countries that seem to want to cast off the medeval Islamic fundamentalist trash.

 

I just hope that the Island makes the right choices when faced with this form of blackmail by so called religious groups who use every trick in the book to turn matters of worship into political issues!