Chinahand Posted October 22, 2006 Share Posted October 22, 2006 I dont believe the oft quoted Mormon belief in a 6,000 year old earth is any different to the irrational beliefs of any other religion.ie: its open to change and revision Yes, but there is then the issue of: on what authority do you accept a change in belief ... because the pope said so, because the evidence currently available seems to show it isn't correct, because to maintain this belief puts you up to ridicule and stops the punters coming in and donating (don't pretend this isn't a serious issue in the minds of various Churches ... think about the C of E and their recent pronouncements about how people aren't really "Living in Sin" in the hell and brim stone sort of way) etc etc. We very quickly get into the God-of-Gaps who is there to explain anything we can't explain and he just gets smaller and smaller each year. I don't have an answer on the age of the earth. No one knows how old the earth is, and there is no doctrine taught on the subject. The church has no official standpoint. As for the other questions about Moroni and other prophets, again, no evidence can be given. It is hard to provide evidence for an individual within an ancient civilisation. If the book of Mormon is a true account, then Moroni was a real man.... but I guess that's all there is to it. Have you read any of the Book? Ok, I give up on the age of the earth, however I don't think your correctly stating Church doctorine. I've had a couple of run ins with Mormons over evolution and it all just got silly ... when you say no one knows how old the earth is ... you are ignoring the fact that many hundreds of thousands of people have ATTEMPTED to answer that question and as they challenge each other on it, the answers get increasingly sophisticated as evidence for different ideas are presented and challenged. If you are going to claim anything less than 3 billion years or more than 8 you must have exclusive evidence to make those statements that directly contracticts the findings of thousands upon thousands of people! The same stands for Moroni and friends. You say no evidence is given ... but ignore the fact that thousands of artifacts, cities, tombs etc do exist that contradict the geography and history described in the book of Mormon. The geneologies etc of the book provide a method of dating it ... and at those dates there is not only no evidence for what the Book claims, but alot of evidence for totally different cultures and groups living in Meso America at that time. Yep, I've read a bit of the Book ... slouched into SLC many years ago ... the Mormons were nice ... when you had no money and had to sleep at the airport the cleaners would take pity on you and take you to a quiet spot, turn off the Musac and switch off the lights ... made SLC our sleep over of choice! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
slinkydevil Posted October 22, 2006 Share Posted October 22, 2006 Is Santa Claus real? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LoneWolf Posted October 22, 2006 Share Posted October 22, 2006 I thought this might be relevant to the age of the earth thing. A Discussion The Mormon church I assume is little different to any other in so much as one time doctrines might change with the passage of time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chinahand Posted October 22, 2006 Share Posted October 22, 2006 Is Santa Claus real? He lives in Finland ... Oh and Greenland .... Oh and the Northpole ... Bet you he has to employ an international tax lawyer ... and think about the rates for the second homes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DjDan Posted October 22, 2006 Share Posted October 22, 2006 Ok, I give up on the age of the earth, however I don't think your correctly stating Church doctorine. I've had a couple of run ins with Mormons over evolution and it all just got silly ... Evolution is different to "how old the earth is". The same stands for Moroni and friends. You say no evidence is given ... but ignore the fact that thousands of artifacts, cities, tombs etc do exist that contradict the geography and history described in the book of Mormon. The geneologies etc of the book provide a method of dating it ... and at those dates there is not only no evidence for what the Book claims, but alot of evidence for totally different cultures and groups living in Meso America at that time. You sound like you know what you are talking about.... what are the artifacts, tombs etc. that contradict the book of mormon? We know of course that there were different cultures living in Meso America, but who's to say that the people described in the book were not living among them? We must be careful in the conclusions that we reach. The Book of Mormon teaches the history of three distinct peoples, or two peoples and three different colonies of people, who came from the old world to this continent. It does not tell us that there was no one here before them. It does not tell us that people did not come after. And so if discoveries are made which suggest differences in race origins, it can very easily be accounted for, and reasonably, for we do believe that other people came to this continent. (Ivins, 1929, p. 15) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gladys Posted October 22, 2006 Share Posted October 22, 2006 No problem with non-extreme religion of any sort, and fully respect anyone's right to follow the religion of their choice. But please, in this day and age, do not assume that I am in need of a missionary to explain it all to me. If I was interested I would go out and find out about it myself, there are plenty of information sources now readily available. I do take exception to having my saturday mornings interrupted by very earnest (and, undoubtedly, pleasant) people wanting to tell me all about their preferred religion. I am not interested. Perhaps we should get the equivalent of "Job Done" stickers for our windows. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Albert Tatlock Posted October 23, 2006 Share Posted October 23, 2006 Religeon is a virus, and the cause of many of the world's problems. The sooner that we realise that, the sooner we can start to look for the cure. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lonan3 Posted October 23, 2006 Share Posted October 23, 2006 Many years ago, when Mormon missionaries were just beginning to get a toe-hold on the island, I was an assistant at the local youth club. Some of these missionaries offered to spend an evening each week helping to teach basketball. I agreed - but on the very strict understanding that would be no proselytizing or promoting of their beliefs whilst they were there. On either the second or third night that they were 'helping' out, I suddenly became aware that a number of the younger club members appeared to be missing - as were some of the Mormon missionaries. I went into the office and found them explaining all about their religion to a group of impressionable youngsters, even though they'd given their word that they would not do so. I threw them out of the club and told them never to come back. Religion - no matter what it's face - is a farcical waste of time, reserved for those too weak or insecure to take responsibility for their own lives. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tugger Posted October 23, 2006 Share Posted October 23, 2006 until quite recently, the Mormons' doctrine was that black people were a lesser form of life, or some such Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shoepatshoe Posted October 23, 2006 Author Share Posted October 23, 2006 No problem with non-extreme religion of any sort, and fully respect anyone's right to follow the religion of their choice. But please, in this day and age, do not assume that I am in need of a missionary to explain it all to me. If I was interested I would go out and find out about it myself, there are plenty of information sources now readily available. I do take exception to having my saturday mornings interrupted by very earnest (and, undoubtedly, pleasant) people wanting to tell me all about their preferred religion. I am not interested. Perhaps we should get the equivalent of "Job Done" stickers for our windows. You took the words right out of my mouth (meatloaf). This is exactly what I think and is what I meant when I said the smart young men in suits wouldn't be interested in my hobbies. I also get upset when people post Kleen-Eze catalogues through my door and get all shirty when they're not ready for collection on my doorstep on - TUESDAY. I end up with either a Kleen-Eze catalogue kicking about my hall for 4 days or a Kleen-Eze catalogue kicking about my door step for 4 days. If I want a new peg bag or an extendable feather duster that can dust round corners (ok then - I had a quick peek inside, BUT ONLY BECAUSE I WAS SO ANGRY) I'll go online and buy one, don't assume I want to get off my bum during Deal or No Deal to answer the door and give you your frigging catalogue back. If everybody adopted the same strategy as The Moomins in advertising their religion, we would be stopped 700 times on our stroll down the prom by people 'just checking' that we weren't interested in: 1) Becoming a Moomin 2) Buying a pair of flip flops 3) Having our windows cleaned 4) Buying a Remington Fuzz Away 5) ............. Shoepatshoe says "No" to proactive religious enrollment. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
feelslikeitshould Posted October 23, 2006 Share Posted October 23, 2006 Oh the Mormons....how great are they! Towards the end of last year, we had a couple of these missionaries visit us on numerous occasions. It started off as a joke (whatever you say, a laugh at the expense of religion is a bloody good laugh) but we soon found ourselves attending Mormon church and becoming owners of a Book of Mormon each. It was a friend of ours who invited them round one day, we were going to grill them on their way of life, ask there opinions on things and generally take the mick. Our mate had been involved with the Mormans before, when he was 14, they did not leave him alone for 3 months, constantly banging on his door and picking him up to take him to church. He was a bit of a skally and says he only did it for free days out to Blackpool etc. He even went so far as to get Baptised by them....he never got confirmed, he decided he wanted out! All this was done without the consent or knowledge of his mum, they came into his house when he was alone and he found them quite creepy towards the end, in a Jesus cult kind of way. We asked them alot about their book and why they believed certain things, it was all a bit weird. Some of the things they said did make sense from a religious point of view, like baptising children over the age of 8, before that age you get into heaven because you're too young to be accountable for anything you do. Which is probably quite 'sensible'. I didn't like the way they worded things in their book, it was clear what you should do, it was an instruction manual, if you didn't do it then expect the full wrath of God. This consisted of an eternity of damnation. Nice. On our visit to their church, it was the time of the month when peole stand up and say what's on their mind and how much the Mormon church and God has helped them. It was very odd. One big black guy got up and was shouting emotively about evolution...He was almost crying and had to be calmed down! He was basically saying that it's wrong to teach evolution in schools because God created the world and Man and everything else, apparently he had withdrawn his children from school at the age of 11 and was teaching them at home. Scary. They're mostly harmless I'd say, a bit creepy and inclined to stalk you daily while they're in your area if you show a vague interest. It's a totally different way of life and I'm sure they were as horrified by what we told them as we were by what they told us! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lonan3 Posted October 23, 2006 Share Posted October 23, 2006 The Osmonds. Unforgiveable! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sarahc Posted October 23, 2006 Share Posted October 23, 2006 Some Mormons came round my house once when I was living in England. They were very nice and polite and even gave me a book of Mormon (which I don't have anymore). They clearly had full belief in what they were telling me but when I queried their belief that Christianity existed in America at the same time as it was getting a foothold in Europe they told me that the Aztecs/Incas (I forget which) killed EVERY Christian in America and erased every trace* of their existence so that nobody had heard of it till the 1600s. It was about then I stopped listening. *apart from some old bit of plate that someone found nearly 2000 years later which 'proved' their existence, and so the Mormons were born. I think. So I don't begrudge their trying to reach us but I really think it's a load of old bollocks. Sorry Donny. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DjDan Posted October 23, 2006 Share Posted October 23, 2006 What's the score with group sex and orgies in the Mormon church? FALSE. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DjDan Posted October 23, 2006 Share Posted October 23, 2006 until quite recently, the Mormons' doctrine was that black people were a lesser form of life, or some such FALSE. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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