The Agitator Posted November 3, 2006 Share Posted November 3, 2006 well we didnt see that coming now did we. Chronology of events 1. Manx Airlines (with LHR route) sold to BA 2. BA axe LHR in favour of LGW - wow surprise surprise 3. BA axe most Manx Airlines routes 4. BA shut down most staffing, outsource ground handling to an agent 5. BA flog Connect and piss off out of the Island with them now landing 747's in the former Manx Airlines LHR slot - everyones a winner???? whatever you thought about Manx AIrlines, it was a stable, profitable and reliable service. Employed plenty of local people, had its own engineering base, cargo terminal and a large route network. BA have proved that big isnt always better - come on Euromanx, take control here and get to where Manx Airlines was in the 1980's. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Wright Posted November 3, 2006 Share Posted November 3, 2006 It had a very shaky start in the 1980's, lets not any of us forget. Its heyday was the mid 1990's. Yes it did build up a reliable service, good reputation (but we still moaned and it was expensive) Effectively it had a monopoly. As the policy of open skies, which is international and over which we can have no control, was rolled out it became more insecure. its only value was the LHR slots. It couldn't realistically compete with low price competitors. Manx was part of British Regional. It wasn't for the IOM routes, or just the LHR slots that BA bought it. It was British Regional. remember Manx had been flying certain routes as BA franchisees for some time before the sell out. BA was trying to develop a regional hub feeding and point to point operation. BA connect became fat. look at the staffing for fewer flights and destinations compared with flyBe. It failed in the face of cheaper leaner more competitive competition Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
asitis Posted November 4, 2006 Share Posted November 4, 2006 The shameful protectionism of the SPco and the ridiculous open skies policy need urgent review I don't quite follow this, on one hand you're not happy with an open policy and on the other you're not happy with a protectionist policy What I meant to say was that in my opinion the SPco provide at best an acceptable service, but is always at the mercy of its lack of investment in vessels and infrastructure. The Govt. by ensuring no one can even suggest providing a better service, protect the profits of a private company. There needs to be a balance struck between the two extremes i.e. the open skies policy and the closed door sea policy, this balance is in my opinion where the best service would be ensured for everyone. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Old Git Posted November 4, 2006 Share Posted November 4, 2006 Do you remember Manx Line though? That was a shipping line set up to compete with the Steam Packet and all that happened was the one with the biggest pockets won and then things went back to normal, although we did have RoRo vessels out of it. I'd agree about there being too many "me too" airlines though. I liked BA for the ease of one booking and checking your luggage all the way through to your destination. I hate FlyBe, don't like them at all Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Wright Posted November 4, 2006 Share Posted November 4, 2006 Do you remember Manx Line though? That was a shipping line set up to compete with the Steam Packet and all that happened was the one with the biggest pockets won and then things went back to normal, although we did have RoRo vessels out of it. I'd agree about there being too many "me too" airlines though. I liked BA for the ease of one booking and checking your luggage all the way through to your destination. I hate FlyBe, don't like them at all The principle is not quite the same, its the reverse, but the result is the same, loss of competition. Yes there has been competition, BA has deepest pockets but has not the stomach for the fight. Sell. Monopoly again. I hope flyBe do put it together, new routes etc. I think we are in for a perid of turbulence with comings and goings. It will be just like the situation late 1970's early 80's, before Manx Airlines. Then we had BMA and BIA competing. Neither making money. Put their assets in one pot, monopoly, almost, and it worked. Then they expanded, set up Manx Airlines Europe, merged that with Logan Air, became a BA franchisee, floated on stock exchange as BRAL, got bought out, doing too well. In reality that was before low cost point to point carriers really esatblished themselves. BA business model does not let it compete with that. flyBe has changed its business model from JEA to BEA to flyBe to compete. We have to give it a go. It is going to be one of our major carrier for some time to come. Any way, lets celebrate, we have more operational routes with more flights than ever, so for thye time being lets celebrate 22 Flights per day to and from London, Maximum with Manx 10. 16 to and from Manchester, maximum with Manx 8 12 Belfast 10 Birmingham, maximum with Manx 4 14 Liverpool Blackpool 10 plus all the others, Leeds Bradford, Glasgow, Edinburgh, Newcastle, Southampton, Dublin Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Old Git Posted November 4, 2006 Share Posted November 4, 2006 The principle is not quite the same, its the reverse, but the result is the same, loss of competition. I was referring to Manx Line as what happened when the Steam Packet had competition, not the current airline situation. I had to take a few flights to Birmingham this year with FlyBe and their in cabin music with their cheap airline adverts irritated the heck out of me while we were sitting for 20 minutes, waiting to take off. Waiting for nearly an hour in a packed bus to be transferred to the plane at Birmingham on the way back didn't make me like them any better either. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Wright Posted November 4, 2006 Share Posted November 4, 2006 I know you were reffering to Manx Line/Steam Packet. So was I in saying that what happened to manx/Ba/flyBe was not quite the same The competition has had the same effect, but this time the one with deepest pockets did not win. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Old Git Posted November 4, 2006 Share Posted November 4, 2006 I know you were reffering to Manx Line/Steam Packet. So was I in saying that what happened to manx/Ba/flyBe was not quite the same I know, I never said it was the same or in any way similar to the airline situation. I was specifically commenting to asitis's post re the Steam Packet monopoly when I mentioned Manx Line. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chinahand Posted November 4, 2006 Share Posted November 4, 2006 22 Flights per day to and from London, Maximum with Manx 10.16 to and from Manchester, maximum with Manx 8 12 Belfast 10 Birmingham, maximum with Manx 4 14 Liverpool Blackpool 10 plus all the others, Leeds Bradford, Glasgow, Edinburgh, Newcastle, Southampton, Dublin It would also be interesting to compare prices. My guess ... in real terms they have halved; can anyone prove me right or wrong? A doubling of service and a halving of costs ... and we still complain! But let the complaints keep coming in, because then people can strive to improve. But thieawin's post seems to show that our airline services have improved; is that because of, or inspite of, our government's open skies policies? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Wright Posted November 4, 2006 Share Posted November 4, 2006 In 1979, 1st year back from Uni BMA IOM LHR was £98 full price, virtually no discounts except an Ap[ex if you stayed away a saturday and booked 14 days in advance. My sister worked at BMA and I was her designated partner. it was £10 standby. Manx Line was £32 car and driver weekend special. Out Friday tea time and back early hours Monday am Today same trips are fully flexible BA fare to LGW £358 and Steam Packet £85 (NB there are very few at that price its nearer £118) both up by 3.6 x approximately inflation over same period is 3.5 x Of course there are all the cheap fares now. Cheapest to LGW was £118 on the website today. I just booked to Barcelona £90 to Liverpool and £35.75 to Barcelona return Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CaptainBob Posted November 5, 2006 Share Posted November 5, 2006 For me this is terrible news. I fly about 100 times a year and have had one or two complaints about BA in the past... but none at all this year. They seem to run a good service with staff who care. Three cheers for Euromanx and Aer Annan too. Of course there are delays sometimes and niggling problems but the staff are always pleasant and try to sort things out as best as they can... no complaints there. Eastern Airways... not a fan at all. I have flown with them a lot and find they have petty and indifferent cabin staff and all for very high prices - not a fan but not many routes (I only do the Bristol run with them). But Flybe..... arrrrgh. Worst carrier I have ever flown with and truly awful in almost every way. Their right hand doesn't know what their left hand is doing and their staff are rude and arrogant. I've complained twice in writing and both complaints didn't even elicit a reasonable reply. Now I have voted with my feet and not flown with them except where no other alternative is available. Unfortunately that is all about to change and I am going to have to fly with them again. I do hope either:- (1) The deal falls through (2) Euromanx/Aer Annan widen their routes (3) BA are only joking and will continue to fly the routes as BA rather than BA Connect (likely). Lets keep our fingers crossed! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spanna Posted November 6, 2006 Share Posted November 6, 2006 Sorry, personally I dont give a shit about who people will be flying with after december . whoopeee dooo. There will still be airlines here, its not even remotely important. Not many people in this thread have even mentioned the most important point of this takeover, which is the second largest employer on the island is soon to employ noone on the island. That is going to affect alot of peoples lives. Fingers crossed for everyone involved especially the people with mortgages and young families. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
manxman8180 Posted November 6, 2006 Share Posted November 6, 2006 ........which is the second largest employer on the island is soon to employ noone on the island....... second largest employer? Really? Does it really employ that many people? Not being picky, just that I wouldn't have placed it that high up. (any figures?) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cholmondley-Warner Posted November 6, 2006 Share Posted November 6, 2006 ........which is the second largest employer on the island is soon to employ noone on the island....... second largest employer? Really? Does it really employ that many people? Not being picky, just that I wouldn't have placed it that high up. (any figures?) Yes, I'd also like to know figures. Government aside, who are the largest employers on the Island? Do we still have many who employ over 100 after the likes of Strix and Ron Shoe co were forced to close down by far east competition. The implications of the BA engineering closing have more implications than their directly employed staff, I wonder how the closing of the facility would affect local suppliers and subcontractors, they must buy a fair bit of supplies and services locally? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mission Posted November 6, 2006 Share Posted November 6, 2006 Charterhouse in Ramsey have 300+ but I believe that Barclays are the largest private employer on the island (no idea how many they employ exactly). Manx were certainly a lot bigger than they are now - they lost 60 odd jobs when their telesales department went after BA took them on and centralised everything and Leslie Vondy House used to be rammed with staff too. It's a real shame, it was a sight to behold going into all of the very busy departments a few years back. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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