Slim Posted November 26, 2006 Share Posted November 26, 2006 Mormons are members of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints, which kinda implies they're Christians.oops beaten! As I understand it, the Mormons believe they are the true christians, most christian faiths obviously disagree. You say they believe in Christ, but it's a very different belief, and contradicts many other christian faiths. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DjDan Posted November 26, 2006 Share Posted November 26, 2006 1. I think most "Christians" would disagree. 2. When insisting that all candidates are "open and honest" (your words) maybe you should follow that approach yourself by declaring your exact religious bias for the avoidance of confusion. 1. Regardless of what some other Christians may want to think, it changes nothing. 2. I don't get your point. I don't want to detract from this topic here, if you want to discuss the whole "are mormons christian?" thing, then please start another thread. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Juan Kerr Posted November 26, 2006 Share Posted November 26, 2006 I don't want to detract from this topic here, if you want to discuss the whole "are mormons christian?" thing, then please start another thread. Yes. I'll go away quietly having picked that up and not got a decent response to why you chose to load your original post in a certain way. Post on. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DjDan Posted November 26, 2006 Share Posted November 26, 2006 Post on. I honestly don't get what you are on about. What's the problem with my original question? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Juan Kerr Posted November 26, 2006 Share Posted November 26, 2006 Post on. I honestly don't get what you are on about. What's the problem with my original question? Your original post was thus: This is just a personal thing, but I would like to have known if any of the candidates are Christian? It is a point that I would be happy to see in an individual. I'm Christian myself, and would openly admit that on my manifesto if I was running for election. Fine, it would probably put people off.... but it's being honest. I would just like to know how the candidates would respond to ethical/moral matters. Just out of curiosity, does anyone know if any of the elected have religious backgrounds? You did not specify the particular branch of Christianity you come from. I doubt other "Christians" would identify with the core beliefs you have as a Mormon so distinguishing between being a Christian and being a member of the Church of Latter Day Saints in your post is material. You chose not to clarify your exact "religion" in the same way that none of the candidates you criticise clarified theirs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Juan Kerr Posted November 26, 2006 Share Posted November 26, 2006 Dupiicate. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DjDan Posted November 26, 2006 Share Posted November 26, 2006 Your original post was thus: This is just a personal thing, but I would like to have known if any of the candidates are Christian? It is a point that I would be happy to see in an individual. I'm Christian myself, and would openly admit that on my manifesto if I was running for election. Fine, it would probably put people off.... but it's being honest. I would just like to know how the candidates would respond to ethical/moral matters. Just out of curiosity, does anyone know if any of the elected have religious backgrounds? You did not specify the particular branch of Christianity you come from. I doubt other "Christians" would identify with the core beliefs you have as a Mormon so distinguishing between being a Christian and being a member of the Church of Latter Day Saints in your post is material. You chose not to clarify your exact "religion" in the same way that none of the candidates you criticise clarified theirs. Most people, when they say they are "Christian" don't then specify exactly what church they attend. In the context of my original posting, i didn't feel it necessary to go into details... i was just pointing out that I would like to know if any candidates stood from a Christian background. As for myself, in situations where I do feel it necessary to talk about my background, I always make very clear my Christian background, and specifically, that I attend the LDS church. This, from my CV for example: "Background and Focus: I am a member of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints, and have been my whole life. This influence on my life has given me high moral values and has taught me respect and honesty." When applying for the police (just in the last few weeks) I made it very clear to them my background again, and how I am actively involved in my church, which is the LDS church. Basically, in all I do... I make it clear, and if I was writing a Manifesto - i'd be very specific there too. In reference to the Christian thing again though.. Christianity is divided. Haven't yu noticed the thousands and thousands of different Christian churches/denominations? The fact that some Christians may disagree with our beliefs, does little to determine wether or not we actually are Christian. A little secret for you - we worship Jesus Christ as the son of God. I think... without going into much detail here, that makes us Christian. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Declan Posted November 26, 2006 Share Posted November 26, 2006 Would any Christian, specify the particular branch. You don't hear people talking about "Methodist Candidates" or "presbyterian values". You've hijacked this thread with a non-argument. No matter how you want to twist it DJ Dan is a Christian - "Mormans believe in God, the Eternal Father, and in His Son, Jesus Christ, and in the Holy Ghost." That makes them Christians, whether you (or other Christian sects) like it or not. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Juan Kerr Posted November 26, 2006 Share Posted November 26, 2006 I'm sorry but his post inferred that by declaring their "religion" that would give him the gauge of the candidates beliefs. And that if they did not declare their religion they were dishonest. I think in general terms (maybe other posters can help here) if someone said that they were a dedicated "Christian" in their manifesto, most people reading that would not think that the person they are considering voting for is a "Mormon". That is the reality. So how would that help DJ Dan or anyone else assess belief systems? Its the same point with someone whose a Catholic or a Methodist saying simply they are a "Christian " without elaborating as this gives you little insight into their actual belief system as each branch believes in slightly different things, and have different tolerances of things. I thought the original post was misleading, others will to. Its a case of the pot calling the kettle black in my book. Him putting "I'm a Christian" in a manifesto when really "I'm a Mormon" would be the most accurate phrase destroys any of the valid points he wanted to make. Edited to provide example. I get a manifesto from a candidate. Its says "I'm a devout Christian". Great I think. He has the same values as me, the same belief systems etc I'll vote for him. You subsequently find out that "I'm a Christian" actually mean't "I'm a Catholic" and you've voted for the fella but you don't share the same views on contraception, womens rights, abortion, same sex marriage etc. Its a meaningless label, if its not qualified. It gives no guide at all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Declan Posted November 26, 2006 Share Posted November 26, 2006 I think you're trying to find hypocracy where none exists. DJ Dan, wasn't a candidate and was just asking whether any of the elected members were Christians, presumably because he feels they would share his values. Nothing misleading about that, just a question. No need for you to make an issue out of it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Juan Kerr Posted November 26, 2006 Share Posted November 26, 2006 I think you're trying to find hypocracy where none exists. DJ Dan, wasn't a candidate and was just asking whether any of the elected members were Christians, presumably because he feels they would share his values. Nothing misleading about that, just a question. No need for you to make an issue out of it. We'll see. The point has been raised now. So lets just see. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Charles Flynn Posted November 26, 2006 Share Posted November 26, 2006 There are many doctrinal differences between Mormonism and say Anglicanism and other Christian denominations. If you google the websites you'll find them spelled out in detail. However I accept that DJ Dan and the members of the Mormon Church have high ethical and moral principles which I took as the main point of the original question. He wanted to know about the stand that say someone like Geoff Corkish or David Anderson would take on certain issues. As for Mr Corkish allegedly being a Freemason I cannot answer whether this fundamentally conflicts with Christianity. Certainly there are many Christian worshippers who belong to a Lodge. I'm not one of them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DjDan Posted November 26, 2006 Share Posted November 26, 2006 However I accept that DJ Dan and the members of the Mormon Church have high ethical and moral principles which I took as the main point of the original question. He wanted to know about the stand that say someone like Geoff Corkish or David Anderson would take on certain issues. Isn't it funny that Juan found it so hard to understand the intent of my question? That is simply all I am interested in. As a Christian, it's nice to know if any MHK's will uphold particular Christian values. More so than that... but to generally uphold 'moral principles' such as matters related to underage drinking, teenage pregnancy etc. Now, some ay disagree with that view... but I have as much right to look for 'something' in a candidate as anyone else. In future, I would like to know if candidates hold certain principles and that's really all I was pointing out in this topic. That... is my personal view. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Juan Kerr Posted November 26, 2006 Share Posted November 26, 2006 Isn't it funny that Juan found it so hard to understand the intent of my question? That is simply all I am interested in. As a Christian, it's nice to know if any MHK's will uphold particular Christian values. More so than that... but to generally uphold 'moral principles' such as matters related to underage drinking, teenage pregnancy etc. Now, some ay disagree with that view... but I have as much right to look for 'something' in a candidate as anyone else. In future, I would like to know if candidates hold certain principles and that's really all I was pointing out in this topic. That... is my personal view. The candidates personal principles are laid out in their manifestos. Your issue was that they should specify their religious beliefs - but not in a direct way that would have some specific meaning but in some general "Muslim" "Christian" "Jedi" way that is essentially meaningless as it does not clarify what they specifically stand for or believe in. Even Charles Flynn stated that "He wanted to know about the stand that say someone like Geoff Corkish or David Anderson would take on certain issues" which is not going to be gauged by a bland statement such as "I'm a Christian". They may be Christian fundamentalist's, they may be liberal Christians, they may be hardline members of Opus Dei, or the Plymouth Bretheren - stating they are "Christian" is meaningless in this context and is meaningless as a manifesto statement. Geoff may be a long term Christian and dedicated member of All Saints - but he may have very liberal attitudes to many of the tenets of Christian faith. What, therefore, would a bland statement that he is a "Christian" tell me about him in relation to specific issues. Nothing other than that he's probably a decent bloke. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DjDan Posted November 26, 2006 Share Posted November 26, 2006 mate, why do you have to take such an issue with something so simple? It's quite clear what I was getting at. Does it need to go any further than that? Just so you know... if I were to ever run for MHK, I'd be very specific in my Manifesto so you don't have to worry about voting for a "Mormon" lol. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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