ste1205 Posted November 23, 2006 Share Posted November 23, 2006 Having just been to vote I noticed something that i've never noticed before. When you are given your ballot paper it is taken from a book and your electrol roll number is written on the stub that remians in the book. The stub contains a four digit number that is also printed on the reverse of the ballot paper. So, in theory, it would be possible to for someone to take your ballot paper after the votes have been cast, look at the stub to find the electrol number that that balot paper was issued to and identify who you had voted for. I'm sure that there is a good reason for this, but I really did think that your vote was secret. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lard Posted November 23, 2006 Share Posted November 23, 2006 Strictly speaking your vote is not secret. Your number on the voting slip tallies with your name/number in the book and can be matched up. The booths are just there for a bit of feel good factor I suppose. So for example, in theory a counter or observer could see your number and see who you voted for. Edited to add Perhaps I am talking bollox having read another thread but perhaps that person is talking utter bollox but that can't be possible. At all. I worked many elections across and over 12 hours you can work out an awful lot of things with stubs and papers and addresses. It isn't, as they say, rocket science. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Wright Posted November 23, 2006 Share Posted November 23, 2006 having acted as returning officer for 30 years i can assure you my post on the other thread is correct. The ballot is secret. The secrecy can only be overturned by Court order for an election petition or a criminal imvestigation A poll clerk has no acess to the cast ballot papers which are sealed in the ballot box, so they can only work out who has, and who hasn't voted a counting clerk has no access to the stubbs or the marked regsiter of electors. Even the returning officer cannot figure it out Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skig Posted November 23, 2006 Share Posted November 23, 2006 I've always been led to beleive that this is something to do with electoral fraud. I dont know how it would work but I beleive that some form of court order, at the highest level, is required before the ballot papers can be examined. All ballot papers are kept in some secure place for a number of years before they are destroyed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Wright Posted November 23, 2006 Share Posted November 23, 2006 Every election I have ever superviosed, including bye elections and Board of Education elections soem one or two electors have raised it. I used to have a crib sheet I gave to my staff to hand out which explained why the cross referncing was necessary and why I and my staff ond observers at the count couldn't work out who had voted for whom. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doric Posted November 23, 2006 Share Posted November 23, 2006 Ah but what if we was all duped into voting for someone who seemed really a really nice person and that at first but after they got in and became cheif minister they went all fascist on us and in order to dispell their detracters they did a military coup with their supporters and got the sealed counterfoils from the court and then found out who didn't vote for them and then they took those people down to Douglas beach and had thme shot or something. "We are out own country and can do what we like" I am told and have actually heard politicians say so apart from upsetting left wingers in the rest of the world the above scenario is quite possible feasibly. I'm going to stand next time by the way. Does anybody want to vote for me? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lonan3 Posted November 23, 2006 Share Posted November 23, 2006 Ah but what if we was all duped into voting for someone who seemed really a really nice person and that at first but after they got in and became cheif minister they went all fascist on us and in order to dispell their detracters they did a military coup with their supporters and got the sealed counterfoils from the court and then found out who didn't vote for them and then they took those people down to Douglas beach and had thme shot or something. Damn! Who spilled the beans on my election strategy for 2011? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stookie Posted November 23, 2006 Share Posted November 23, 2006 having acted as returning officer for 30 years i can assure you my post on the other thread is correct. The ballot is secret. The secrecy can only be overturned by Court order for an election petition or a criminal imvestigation A poll clerk has no acess to the cast ballot papers which are sealed in the ballot box, so they can only work out who has, and who hasn't voted a counting clerk has no access to the stubbs or the marked regsiter of electors. Even the returning officer cannot figure it out Unless they change the rules after the votes are in! It isn't secret, unless key parts/everything is destroyed immediately after Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ushtey Posted November 24, 2006 Share Posted November 24, 2006 Given that the polling cards are sent out in windowed envelopes which clearly show the polling number, and given also that you don't even need to know your polling number, simply go into the hall and give a name and address, how secure can the vote really be as you aren't required to show ID? Let's face it, a simple mail merge from the electoral roll would give you very authentic looking polling cards. It wouldn't be difficult for a candidate to make a note of those people on the elctoral roll who tell them they won't be voting when they knock on their door, or those they know who will be away but don't use their absent vote, then simply line up a few replacements from outside the area to walk in and claim those respective votes. At busy times when there is a queue of people at each polling station, how many polling agents actually scrutinise the face of the person who presents a polling card? To be doubly sure, you could always have a polling station yourself, outside the halls, to ask everyone their polling number and then cross check that against the electoral roll and slip your own candidates in during the last hour rush. The only risk is that the person on the polling station actually knows the person you're pretending to be, which is greatly lessened if those people are from outside the area. Personally I don't believe any candidate in last night's election deliberately broke the rules in this way, but if I figured it out so easily, pretty much anyone could. After all, would 50 or 100 votes have made a difference to any of the results last night? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave the Cardboard Box Posted November 24, 2006 Share Posted November 24, 2006 What stunned me was the letter from Treasury - headed Official Poll Card The letter which gives your number etc. The main sub-heading is "On Her Majesty's Service" What has our electoral roll or voting system got to do with her, or her UK Government? I wonder what George Lazenby thinks about this? I think we should be told..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ian rush Posted November 24, 2006 Share Posted November 24, 2006 I wonder what George Lazenby thinks about this? He's probably too busy grieving for his career (or Diana Rigg) to be troubled Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Old Git Posted November 24, 2006 Share Posted November 24, 2006 The main sub-heading is "On Her Majesty's Service" What has our electoral roll or voting system got to do with her We're a Crown Dependency perhaps? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WilDDog Posted November 24, 2006 Share Posted November 24, 2006 What stunned me was the letter from Treasury - headed Official Poll Card The letter which gives your number etc. The main sub-heading is "On Her Majesty's Service" What has our electoral roll or voting system got to do with her, or her UK Government? I didn't open my letter until about 7.30pm and wondered the same thing. But saying that does anyone really think that the Island is completely independant from the UK or that it will ever be? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Old Git Posted November 24, 2006 Share Posted November 24, 2006 But saying that does anyone really think that the Island is completely independant from the UK or that it will ever be? You need to separate The Queen, Lord of Man, etc, from the UK and the UK Government Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rallybug Posted November 24, 2006 Share Posted November 24, 2006 But saying that does anyone really think that the Island is completely independant from the UK or that it will ever be? As the island isn't completely independent - can you imagine the Manx Army, Navy and Air Force? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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