the stinking enigma Posted March 13, 2018 Share Posted March 13, 2018 What's your theory on putins motive for this, the way it was done and the timing? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Albert Tatlock Posted March 13, 2018 Share Posted March 13, 2018 Political murder has been around for a couple of thousand years. Russia, Malta...UK even...all still going on. It's the natural causes deaths you need to worry about. Not found out. Cough...Robin Cook, Dr David Kelly (Iraq). Plus the many that don't even appear in the news. And don't believe all you read...Ken Dodd clearly knew too much. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pongo Posted March 13, 2018 Share Posted March 13, 2018 Just now, the stinking enigma said: What's your theory on putins motive for this, the way it was done and the timing? Those keeping Putin in power have made it such that crossing Putin is un-patriotic. That's his nonsense mother Russia appeal. Russian propaganda is today aimed squarely at conspiracy theorists and the disaffected. In the same way as Soviet propaganda was once aimed at the disaffected left. Putin stands for mother Russia today. Imagine if Mrs May or Mr Corbyn invoked God, blood and soil. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NoTail Posted March 13, 2018 Share Posted March 13, 2018 Someone on another group just said If Putin wanted him dead he would be dead. Food for thought ... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
quilp Posted March 13, 2018 Share Posted March 13, 2018 34 minutes ago, pongo said: Russian propaganda is today aimed squarely at conspiracy theorists and the disaffected. It's a game pongo. Of course, all this plays very nicely into the equally-grubby hands of Putins's legions of opponents. It's not all 'Mother Russia' in the actual Russian media, he has powerful enemies there too. It's the second act, a very British response to Russia's alleged interfering in everything; Trump's election campaign, being just one. The UK media picked it up in a flash, it was all over farcebook and the rest of the twitterati world before any real official statement had been made, now everyone's running on it. Even you. Hyperbole everywhere! And why not? Who knows what news is real news today? It doesn’t seem likely that this little mystery is a product of Putins's Russia. This is more like some old-school score being settled. That 'nerve-agent' appeared in the late 70s, and let's be honest those two are stable in hospital, still alive, the daughter said to be improving so it does cast a light on its alleged efficacy and risk to life, along with the well-publicised efforts at the decontamination, public announcements and the continuing inquiry, the whole thing is feeling a bit overblown. What happens after Russia fails to meet the deadline? Sanctions? World annihilation? Charge of the Light Brigade? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lxxx Posted March 13, 2018 Share Posted March 13, 2018 If the Iraq war taught us anything it's that intelligence agencies, of all persuasions, have form in working to agendas that aren't necessarily in concert with the elected governments they are purported to represent. Publicly at least. No-one really knows what goes on in this murky world so to steadfastly nail your colours to the mast of one set of professional liars over another is naïve in the extreme. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pongo Posted March 13, 2018 Share Posted March 13, 2018 11 minutes ago, quilp said: It's a game pongo. It isn't. And the implication that there is an equivalence is misguided and wrong. 12 minutes ago, quilp said: Who knows what news is real news today? The quality and reputation of the organisation and individuals reporting the news is a good place to start. It's the same as we should tend to listen more to scientists and less to a chap in a pub. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
the stinking enigma Posted March 13, 2018 Share Posted March 13, 2018 I didn't really know much about vince cable until now. I had naturally assumed that because woody was forever running him down that in reality vince must have been quite a decent guy. It appears i was wrong, and for that woody i apologise. The Lib Dems’ leader, Vince Cable, has said there should be an EU-wide boycott of this summer’s World Cup in Russia. He said: Do it collectively. That would really hurt them. The World Cup would not be viable. It would make it pointless. Urging the nine other EU countries who qualified for the tournament to show solidarity with England, he added: I am not advocating Britain acting unilaterally. That would be a futile gesture. It would cause a lot of annoyance in the UK and have minimal impact on the tournament. Cable said the UK could offer to host the World Cup if an EU walkout meant the tournament in Russia could not go ahead Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
quilp Posted March 14, 2018 Share Posted March 14, 2018 5 hours ago, pongo said: The quality and reputation of the organisation and individuals reporting the news is a good place to start... So who decides reputation? You, obviously. People choose to watch and read what pleases them and with which they identify. Whether that's because of its political bent, celebrity adulation or tits on page 3. The same way they will avoid publications where the content might bore or offend them, maybe in case they read something they don't agree with. Many reasons. It's not what one watches or reads it's how one watches and reads. Between the lines is always a good start. It's worth looking at English-version Russian sites (other than RT) and how they're viewing it all. This 'nerve-agent' was also stored in Georgia and Ukraine, before and after the fall of the USSR. The media attention will've made them do a bit of digging of their own, perhaps turn up a tidbit to dangle to the UK in the hope of solving the case quietly and not lose face. The only certain evidence existing now is that it's a nerve-agent normally manufactured in Russia. Easily disguised and transportable as two separate chemical agents, according to different experts without an interest. I'd still plump for it being an historical revenge: who knows whose path he crossed? He's ex-GRU, blew the whistle on 300 spys and double-agents, lots of individuals will have an axe to grind. It all appears a little too amateurish and pointless to be connected to the current regime: something has come back to haunt them, like Litvinenko's ghost (and other less-well-knowns) which haunts the shady corridors of Anglo-Russian relations. As a political wedge it is a handy, anti-Putin hot-potato, coincidental in the run up to Russian election year and an electorate coming of age who've only experienced Putin's rule. A chance of regime-change maybe? Every little helps... It's also helping to spin the notion of consolidation, the big strong EU/NATO alliance, sabring the 'we'd-still-be-in-it-together-despite-Brexit (but-better-together)' narrative. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
woolley Posted March 14, 2018 Share Posted March 14, 2018 @ Pongo: Far too simplistic in a complex world. Looks like you are the one who believes everything you are told. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
woody2 Posted March 14, 2018 Share Posted March 14, 2018 11 hours ago, the stinking enigma said: I didn't really know much about vince cable until now. I had naturally assumed that because woody was forever running him down that in reality vince must have been quite a decent guy. It appears i was wrong, and for that woody i apologise. The Lib Dems’ leader, Vince Cable, has said there should be an EU-wide boycott of this summer’s World Cup in Russia. He said: Do it collectively. That would really hurt them. The World Cup would not be viable. It would make it pointless. Urging the nine other EU countries who qualified for the tournament to show solidarity with England, he added: I am not advocating Britain acting unilaterally. That would be a futile gesture. It would cause a lot of annoyance in the UK and have minimal impact on the tournament. Cable said the UK could offer to host the World Cup if an EU walkout meant the tournament in Russia could not go ahead his speech on sunday basically labelled everyone who voted exit racist.... In his speech on Sunday, Sir Vince said a "nostalgia for a world where passports were blue, faces were white and the map was coloured imperial pink" had driven some older voters to Brexit. http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-43367204 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
P.K. Posted March 14, 2018 Share Posted March 14, 2018 7 hours ago, quilp said: I'd still plump for it being an historical revenge: who knows whose path he crossed? He's ex-GRU, blew the whistle on 300 spys and double-agents, lots of individuals will have an axe to grind. It all appears a little too amateurish and pointless to be connected to the current regime: something has come back to haunt them, like Litvinenko's ghost (and other less-well-knowns) which haunts the shady corridors of Anglo-Russian relations. Those who carried it out appear to have had ready access to a binary weapon. That says "state sponsored" to me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
P.K. Posted March 14, 2018 Share Posted March 14, 2018 22 hours ago, quilp said: Sorry old chip... Again... https://www.telegraph.co.uk/journalists/andrew-gilligan/10108098/Muslim-hate-monitor-to-lose-backing.html Failing to mention its sources and how and where such "unprecedented" hate crimes were occurring. Please read all of it... Gilligan of poor Dr David Kelly fame no doubt. Sounds like they inflated their figures for no other reason than to stay bankrolled by public money. A scam. However that was 5 years ago. I suppose it does raise the question of how much hate crime goes unreported. A lot would be my guess. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
woolley Posted March 14, 2018 Share Posted March 14, 2018 2 minutes ago, P.K. said: I suppose it does raise the question of how much hate crime goes unreported. A lot would be my guess. Oh yes. And particularly unreported goes that by one ethnic minority group against another. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
P.K. Posted March 14, 2018 Share Posted March 14, 2018 20 minutes ago, woolley said: Oh yes. And particularly unreported goes that by one ethnic minority group against another. Not necessarily http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3420245/Why-Boston-segregated-town-UK-Old-agricultural-industrial-heartlands-places-residents-live-parallel-lives.html Sorry it's the quite appalling Daily Wail. Sent to me by one of the chaps I go drinking fishing with at Boston. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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