quilp Posted March 16, 2018 Share Posted March 16, 2018 2 hours ago, pongo said: No. It's a subjective opinion. At best. At last... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
woody2 Posted March 16, 2018 Share Posted March 16, 2018 38 minutes ago, pongo said: I have never done a flounce. Not ever. On 25/02/2018 at 3:57 PM, pongo said: These issues are obviously very emotive and therefore divisive. Perhaps we should from now on look at what we agree on rather than what we disagree on. Quilp has got the right idea ducking out of discussing this further. I'm going to join him. Richard and Woody can have these Brexit threads to themselves from now on. Cheers Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pongo Posted March 16, 2018 Share Posted March 16, 2018 1 minute ago, woody2 said: Why have you have posted a whistle? That's not a flounce you have quoted. Are you trying to stir? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
P.K. Posted March 16, 2018 Share Posted March 16, 2018 9 minutes ago, quilp said: Link? Probably somewhere. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
woody2 Posted March 16, 2018 Share Posted March 16, 2018 7 minutes ago, pongo said: Why have you have posted a whistle? That's not a flounce you have quoted. Are you trying to stir? oh yes it is...... the same day 21 deals was announced..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pongo Posted March 16, 2018 Share Posted March 16, 2018 You should argue this Liam, Woody. He's the one saying that he doesn't have the capacity. I was just taking him at his word. I won't argue Brexit with you. But could you please post a link to these 21 deals? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
woody2 Posted March 16, 2018 Share Posted March 16, 2018 1 minute ago, pongo said: You should argue this Liam, Woody. He's the one saying that he doesn't have the capacity. I was just taking him at his word. I won't argue Brexit with you. But could you please post a link to these 21 deals? no, because unlike you, everyone knows the uk can't sign deals while a member of the eu... the link is in the thread you did a flounce from..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
woody2 Posted March 16, 2018 Share Posted March 16, 2018 1 hour ago, woody2 said: interesting labour are going after the oligarchs, but only the oligarchs that have given to the tories, the same oligarchs that happen to be jewish........ @Rog any view? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
P.K. Posted March 16, 2018 Share Posted March 16, 2018 29 minutes ago, quilp said: Link? From a recent (UK) survey in answer to the question: Of all the news sources (TV broadcaster, radio, newspaper, magazine or website), which ONE source are you most likely to turn to for news you trust the most? The top 5 answers were: 57% - BBC 11% - ITV 5% - SKY 4% - The Grauniad 3% - Channel 4 With The Daily Wail, The Torygraph, The Times etc etc all scoring 1% which struck me as odd as I didn't think they would score as high as that.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chinahand Posted March 16, 2018 Author Share Posted March 16, 2018 My view of Russia is that it is a thug-ocracy. Big thugs have littler thugs behind their backs to knife them and littler thugs have lesser thugs and so on ad infinitum. If you are a business man or small trader you could be shaken down by the bureaucracy for fees, back-taxes or a donation for that certificate you haven't applied in triplicate for, but also some bigger thug might turn up and take over your business with menaces, and even oligarchs aren't free of this risk; if Putin decides you are out, a billionaire can easily be stripped of 90% of his wealth and exiled. Putin is the biggest meat grinder in this machine, but out of his line of sight there are multiple other actors all grinding away. Most, if the Siloviki turn up, profess loyalty to Mother Russia, but they are basically out for themselves and theft, blackmail, murder and appropriation are standard parts of their toolkit, learnt in part from emulating Putin. This is the environment where murderous power is proudly and openly used, all the while getting a blessing from the Patriach and adding a bit of anti-semitism or xenophobia into the mix. It is poisonous, and uses poisons, radiological and neurologic, to make their point. It isn't that surprising many get out, taking what they've got to London and else where, nor is it surprising that Putin is culpable for bringing murder onto British streets. Personally I think he sanctioned it, but maybe some patriot in the grubby Siloviki/mafia world decided to take his revenge on a turbulent priest to please his unknowing boss. Yes, it could be the Ukrainians out for revenge for Putin invading them and bringing his war and corruption and little green thugs into their land, personally I doubt it, but again the spider at the centre of that nasty little web is still Putin pulling thuggish strings. We can't be hasty say the useful idiots, we're just as bad as them parrot pundits on RT. No. They are different, and beware of them, they kill quickly to get what they want and see hesitancy as weakness. Ask Georgia, Ukraine, and see worried looks in the Baltics. Putin wants them back and treats them just as he would an oligarch who gets out of line. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pongo Posted March 16, 2018 Share Posted March 16, 2018 1 minute ago, Chinahand said: Putin wants them back and treats them just as he would an oligarch who gets out of line. I don't think he wants them back as such. It's more that he believes in the old Soviet idea of "spheres of influence". Russia, since Napoleon, at least, has feared its long border with the west - the width of the continent. It objects to the idea of genuinely independent nations on its border. In reality there is no reason why NATO and the EU should not border Russia directly. There is no reason why countries which border Russia should lean towards Moscow or even be neutral. The issue is Russia not being a modern democracy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chinahand Posted March 16, 2018 Author Share Posted March 16, 2018 Agree. That's basically what I meant. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
P.K. Posted March 16, 2018 Share Posted March 16, 2018 3 minutes ago, pongo said: I don't think he wants them back as such. It's more that he believes in the old Soviet idea of "spheres of influence". Russia, since Napoleon, at least, has feared its long border with the west - the width of the continent. It objects to the idea of genuinely independent nations on its border. In reality there is no reason why NATO and the EU should not border Russia directly. There is no reason why countries which border Russia should lean towards Moscow or even be neutral. The issue is Russia not being a modern democracy. There is currently a quite large NATO "Tripwire" deployment in the Baltic States and Poland. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lxxx Posted March 16, 2018 Share Posted March 16, 2018 1 hour ago, the stinking enigma said: The beeb regularly run stories on syria where their only source is the one man uk bedsit based syrian observatory for human rights. Every syria story comes through there. Is that fair and impartial reporting? And the equally laughable motley crue who go by the name of the 'White Helmets.' Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
quilp Posted March 16, 2018 Share Posted March 16, 2018 1 hour ago, P.K. said: Bleat all you like but Aunty Beeb remains the most trusted media outlet on the planet. This is what you said, "... on the planet." That survey you posted looks like an IPSOS result, which the BBC commissioned. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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